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blue
good point about the proctors(they really are agreat tool aren’t they)
Iguess we are lucky here that we can get a crane for only an hour.There are several crane companies in town with rigs from 5 tons-30 tons.I assume the competition makes a one hour minimum necessary for survival.
you could plan your lift properly,in the right situation,to use that 4 hours very effectively.If it saves you from what happened here,you can easily justify the expense.
jim
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Replies
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Last Monday, when we returned to work after the Xmas weekend, a frame crew from down the street asked our crew to come help them stand a large balloon wall(18feet tall 18 feet long).My first reaction was to tell them to call a crane,in clear 20/20 hindsight I wish I would have stuck to it.Long story short we got wall half way up and the lead man,using the term loosely, yelled everyone find a window! 1 2 3 go! At that point the wall came to rest on the mid section of one of the guys from my crew.
he won't be back to work for at least 4-6 months, if at all.His pelvis is now held together by a 4 inch bolt and a steel plate.This guy had been working for me for just about 2 weeks.
On my jobs I ALWAYS schedule a crane for this type of wall.I lost big time by trusting the judgement of another foreman.It may seem a little expensive to do this, but, it beats the stuffing out of the trip to the hospital to check on an employee.With a little planning you can utilize the crane for the entire hour of a minimum charge.i.e. move some studs closer to where you need them,same with sheathing, plate material.It's not being lazy, it is being intelligent.
Be safe everyone and here's to a great year for us all!! jim
*Ouch!JIm, this is an interesting story, one with severe financial impact on you.Why did the guy yell to let it drop? Was the bottom kicking up? Details please?We raise these types of walls all the time with wall jacks.My ex-partner and I used to raise them by ourselves all the time, some slightly larger than what you have described. It does take a little planning, but it isn't rocket science!My biggest concern was that the wooden members of the boom would fail. Winter is a bad time, because frozen lumber has more of a tendency to snap, rather than bend. Of course, we could always opt for larger boom members, but we never did.I and my crew will not help other crews raise walls. It used to be quite common to help each other, but I stopped for the exact reason that you experienced. You put you life in the hands of an inexperienced leader. I refuse to raise any wall that I have not supervised the building of. There is too much that can go wrong.One time, a crew came across the street and asked us to help raise a wall. I refused, but offered my wall jacks (probably shouldn't). The guy said: "no thanks, we have a set of them too in the truck. We just don't like to set them up".We could hear them calling us assholes as they raised the heavy walls themselves, WITHOUT their wall jacks! They were using the one-end-at-a-time method, propping it up as thet went.That's proof that there a lot of idiots out there.I knew a carpenter that was hurt, helping another crew. By the time the lawsuits was sorted out, every one lost.blue
*Keep this one at the top. It's something new guys with a lot of energy and little experience should know. Tell the kid we wish him well.
*Jim....some after-action reports would be appreciated, what happened with the insurance companies ?, did his cover, or is your's goin after him, or what?The poor fellow lying there in bed wondering about his future makes you bless the day you got Workmen's Compblue.....we used our Proctor's for everthing..never lost a thing...always under control, even set some steel center beams with them.....friend moved to Colorado and wanted to build a house by himself for himself so I sold em after 20 years... sure wish I had 'em back...2 guys doin the work of 8 with no sweat...
*blue, the wall was dropped when the leadman decided that we couldn't push it any further.I checked before we started to see if it was strapped to the floor, it was ,so the bottom was not a problem.The problem was like calvin said to much youth and enthusiasm not enough muscle to back it up.mike,I keep a set of proctors handy all the time,mine aren't big enough for the wall in question, won't frame without them.still a little early on the insurance thing.I sub contract from a reputable frame contracter(30 years in business, 1 bank, 1 dba company name),he runs all my payroll for me.My guys are covered under his WC policy.The crew that we went to help is also one of his hourly crews.That is part of the reason I took my guys down there to help,(i.e. "we do it this way all the time, we should be able to lift this one.") i'm going by to see him tomorrow to ddrop off a checkand see how he's doing. i'll send your thoughts to him.jim
*mike I talked with my guy yesterday. WC is going to start sending him checks next week,and they are also going to get him a wheelchair so he can get around a little easier.He is up and around on crutches,but he says he is still very sore. Had a physical therapy session yesterday and told me the nurse was impressed with his progress.He won't be returning to work.With all the steel in his pelvis he's pretty sure winter would be hell.I can't say I blame him, if this happened to me 2 weeks into my career I'm damn sure I'd be looking for another way to feed my family.I'll try too keep you up to speed on the insuance thng if anything comes up.REMEBER SAFETY PAYS CALL THE CRANE FOR THE BIG STUFF!!!!jim
*That's a shame Jim. When I was young, dumb, and ..., we used to have short lengths (braces) available just in case we were overloaded. Instead of running, we'd simply block it up, and re-group.Are the Procters the metal boom style wall jack?They seem to be more than capable of raising an 18' wall.On many of these two story balloon walls, we set the wall jack inside a window, thus attaching much lower. This enables up to raise the wall to it's full height without re-setting the wall jacks.Sometimes, if there are no windows, we are forced to re-set the wall jacks after the wall reaches it't capacity. It takes a few minutes, but it works.It looks like you personally are off the hook for the comp claims. blue
*Reminds me of a lift we did last winter, a Great Room wall about 25' to the peak, about 25 feet wide, lots of windows and heavy lintels. Instead of trying to lift it by hand, we built a spiffy tripod rig almost as high as the wall and tilted the wal up by tying on a rope to the wall, over top the pivoting tripod and to the truck bumper, and driving the truck away. Everything looked just duckey until the wall got vertical, at which point the stretch in the rope just kept pulling the wall right over even though the truck was stopped. Nobody was hurt, but it was rather embarrassing to leave the wall on the ground (down another storey) for a couple of days until the crane could come and pick it up for us! I'm glad to be working with a bunch of old guys who put safety ahead of testosterone, and it's standard company policy that nobody is to attempt anything they don't feel is totally safe, for them (never mind what the other guy says). Sorry to hear your guy got hurt so bad, I hope he recovers 100%, and at least nobody got killed. Be careful out there!
*talked to my guy today.Said he had staples taken out of his stomach yesterday, they also took some xrays of the pelvis. Doctors were happy with the healing so far.They also projected that he could return to work as early as April 29th.blue talked to the boom truck operater that stood the wall in question today. He said it was pretty darn heavy.I may have been able to do it with my proctors,but ,I don't think I would have wanted to be standing under it that long.Again in 20-20 hindsight that wall is more than worthy of the cost of a crane.jim
*Jim, the proctors allow you to stay out of the "footprint" of the wall. If they will get it past the 45 degree level, it starts to become lighter with each degree. At the top of the proctor, it's actually quite manageable, unless it's loaded with porches or such.We really have never had any problems raising these, and I have personally felt any danger. Of course, I don't get into the "footprint" until the wall is almost vertical, and under control.We don't have anyone here that would come out with a crane for only one hour (4 hrs at $80= $320 minimum). If I did, I minght be more inclined to call them, assuming I could count on their timeliness. Hope the newbie recovers 100%!blue
*blue good point about the proctors(they really are agreat tool aren't they)Iguess we are lucky here that we can get a crane for only an hour.There are several crane companies in town with rigs from 5 tons-30 tons.I assume the competition makes a one hour minimum necessary for survival. you could plan your lift properly,in the right situation,to use that 4 hours very effectively.If it saves you from what happened here,you can easily justify the expense.jim
*the problem with using the four hours effectively is this.Usually the large wall has to go first, and there are often two more.I just hate to have two four hour minimums on each job. Or three. If the wall jack method was difficult, I'd certainly hire the crane, but it isn't. It is safe too, if it is properly rigged.And I supervise the rigging.I am jealous about the one hour minimums.blue
*blue I'll admit that using for hours of crane at the time you are framing walls is a difficult task.When you have more than one tall wall you can frame one in place to be simply tipped up with the crane, and frame the others on the remainder of the subfloor and tip them up and then move them to where they belong.We had a house like this 3-4 years ago .15 foot walls at the study,and an eight sided room with 20 footers about 4 feet long each.Standing these took about 1-1/2 hours.Once we stood the walls we set some steel in the second floor,moved some material up to a section of the second floor we were able to frame before having tall stuff stood.This still didn't fill your 4 hours,however,it is better than calling him out to stand one wall and getting charged for 4 hours for 20 minutes of crane time.jimp.s. I have a new appreciation for the crane service here.I honestly think if I were subject to that 4 hour minimum,I would have to change my ways alot. (and I think that could be read as "I'd have to work alot harder" )
*talked to my guy yesterdayhe is getting tired of just laying around the house waiting to heal.Doctors say he can start swimming in about 2-3 weeks.Sounds like he may be considering coming back to work for me, who knows, could just be the pain killers talking or the boredom.jim