OK, I’m a dummy. I have a bathroom door that was fine for several months but has suddenly decided that it wants to swing open by itself when not closed completely. How do I go about diagnosing the problem?
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Do you have a good level? I'd put it on the barrels of the hinges. Check them in two dirrections to see if they are plumb. But if you don't want to move the jam around you could just bend the hinge pin.
In order to bend a pin, take it out and put it on a surface that you don't mind damaging. Take your hammer and hit it mid pin. It should be bent a bit. Put it back in the hinge and the door shouldn't move on it's own. If it does do another pin.
The bent pin thing works, but should be avoided if possible. Bent pins throw a nasty oily black spray on the walls and jambs near them. FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
Not to even mention that you have to put it back into the hinge it came from when you repaint/refinish or remove doors for any reason at all. Same holds true of bending hinges themselves.
painters don't love carps who do that .
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Agreed. Best thing to do is to plumb the hinges in both direcions.
And how the heck do you do that on an existing door?
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
First of all, lay a 6' level (a good true one) on the barrels of the hinges and find where the out of plumb line is. Do it on the side of the barrel facing the room, then on the side of the barrels facing the opposite side of the jamb. For the plumb line going into the room, you pull the hinges, fill the holes with wood plugs and glue, and then reset them. If it's just two hinges on the door, you only need to do it with the one hinge, if it's three then you do it to two etc.For the plumb line of the jamb going laterally or side to side, you may be able to get away with shimming the hinges accordingly to make it plumb. You can shim them both on the door and the jamb. I use cardboard strips just under the front part of the hinge leaf. Just remember though you're going to have to probably shave the strike side of the door to fit properly. If the lateral plumb is so bad that it is beyond shimming the hinges, then you have to remove the casing on both sides, take a flat bar and pry the jamb out to plumb then shim it snug and renail the jamb to the stud. Put your casing back on.I know all this sounds like a PITA, and it is, but it really doesn't take all that long and it really is the proper way to have the door hung.
I'm sorry, but how is butchering the woodwork more "proper" than bending a hinge pin?
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
You don't butcher the woodwork to start with. Then the choice is, you either set it straight and let it function right for several years (even decades), or bend the pin and have a worn squeaky hinge within a few years and a door that will start swinging again. I've done both on hundreds of doors over the years.You can do what you want. I'm just telling you what I would do if the swinging of the door bugged me enough. Short cuts are fine, I couldn't do what I do without them. You pay your money, you make your choice.
My career has been one of taking apart old, fixing, and reassembling to look like nothing was ever done. I know, it's easier said, but it's how I do things.
They do squeak, and to keep them quiet, they require more lubricant, more often. The grating throws oil and metal specks on the wall. I first noticed this phenomenom on a tract condo that I moved into. I had never saw it before and wondered what was causing the black spray near the hinges. Then, I developed a door problem on another house I owned. I did the bent hinge pin trick. Later, I started seeing the black spray and I then figured out why it was happening in the condo.I do agree with Stephen though. It is an elegant solution in most instances. If you are able to work in the trade and spend four hours or more and get paid: more power to you. FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
blue,
I am wondering if this "oiley spray" vs. no "oiley spray" might realy be " modern brass plated hardware' vs. " old fashioned solid brass hardware"
I realy don't know.
Stephen
I suspect. I've only seen the "spray" from cheap hardware when overloaded.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
You nailed it.
It is common to have old hinges that need a bit of adjusting or even swaging in my old occupation of pipe organs, and replacing a hinge with new was a last resort, they just don't hold up as well.
My house has all new-ish cheap Lowes doors, and almost every hinge has that black powdered grindings leaking out.
OTOH , my currant job is hinging old Casemant windows and we chose Baldwin Brass Lifetime finish, and a 3x3 Butt is 55.00 a PR. A bit pricey for my blood.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
It could be. I think the oily spray is a mix of metal parts and dirt. FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
I'm with you. I've never bent a hinge pin, and don't intend to start.
Did it on our downstairs bathroom door at least 20 years ago. Still good, and no spray, no squeaks.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
I don't think either is the case. The "oily spray" comes from overloading cheap hinges, not bending the pin. And if you don't get the pin back in the same knuckle it'll be a little tighter for a few weeks, but that's about it.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
From reading the post I thought the poster needed an easy fix. " OK, I'm a dummy." , was his opening line. I've seen the spray on walls but thought it was due to excessive oil on the barrels.
I wouldn't recommend moving the jamb or shimming the hinges to someone who doesn't have experience with door hanging.
As for painters having trouble with hinges that have been bent. I don't recommend having MOST painters removing and re-installing hinges. I say most because most painters don't have the tools or training to get it right. I'd have someone do it that knows how to hang doors. It's a good opportunity to tune up the doors anyway. As the door hanger takes off the doors he can check them for clearance and other issues so when they go back on they fit. Number the doors and number the hinges. Don't just drop them into a bucket. It's also a good opportunity to clean up the hinges. Theres nothing like using a door that works right. They are a joy to use.
Edited 11/25/2007 9:35 am ET by popawheelie
Remove one hinge pin, lay it on concrete, and whack it good with a hammer, right in the middle so as to bend it ever so slightly. Reinstall.
If the problem only just started, then most likely, the hinge side jamb has been out of plumb since its original install. The hinges have worn in to the point where the door can now swing easily. Buggering the hinge as suggested should work even though its not an elegant solution.
If the jamb isn't plumb (and a level should easily determine this), I can't imagine an easy way to re-plumb it other than pulling the casing. I've shimmed hinges to address fit issues, but not out-of-plumb issues.
On the other hand, if a door is going to swing freely, isn't it better to swing open than closed? If you want it to stay at least partially closed for aesthetic reasons, consider a weak spring between the top of the door and the doorway.
Unless you overdo it, the bent hinge trick doesn't add much in the way of perceptable resistance. I just checked a door I did about 20 years ago -- no signs of "spray" and no resistance you'd notice. But the door doesn't wander when you let go of it.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
don,
if you think about it-----actually----- bending the hinge pin IS a delightfully elegant solution.
pull the pin, wack it-- re-install---totall time-under a minute.--completely invisible---ZERO problem with the woodwork-Zero damage-------and---gotta say-- I have never encountered oiley spray on the wall from this.
of course when i have done this--it's been on 80 year old plus houses--prob. hinges have NEVER been oiled--where is the spray gonna come from?
so---comparing 60 seconds to bend the hinge pin-----to how long??? shimming hinges-pulling casing, re-nailing jambs------touching up paint--or hoping wood filler matches stain grade trim------------- bending the hinge pin looks like a VERY elegant solution.
Stephen
Ok, fine, maybe it is elegant. But then we gotta call it something other than "buggering a hinge" or even "bending the hinge pin". How about "door articulation joint spindle grip enhancement"? Can I charge more for that?
:-)
I was taught that it's "forming" when you do it intentionally.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
no problem Don,
what you are going to do is "tune" the hinge pin
or
" finesse" the hinge pin
Stephen
I have to say I'm on the side that says the hinges should be plumb, but I some of my guys now learned trim in a production setting and I'm learning that my tolerances might be kind of tight for a jobsite. I've never bent a pin but I can see how it might be the best solution for a particular job.
The term "tuning the hinge" helps a lot!
I kept getting a call back on a closet door. Folks liked to leave it cracked so the cat could get to the litter box... bent pin, door stayed just right, but later I'd get another call... one for each pin... til one of the guys asked, "hey, is this window always open?"... d'oh LOL
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Planman,
If the door was working fine before, it might just be sagging a little out of plumb.
A simple solution is to remove one of the top hinge jamb screws and replace it with a longer 2" or 2 1/2" screw that will reach the framing stud and "pull" the door jamb back to the correct position.
If the jamb is bowed in the middle, the same procedure can be done to the center hinge.
The "bend the pin" trick worked. Thanks for the input.
And after only 27 replies. This must be a new record.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
I'm not a big fan of the bent pin theory, but it only takes a minute to remove the bottom and middle hinge, then matchstick the exsisting holes, drill new pilot holes just to the outside of the old ones replace the hinges and spackle the slight space.
And then mask the hinge, paint, wait for the first coat to dry, sand lightly, then paint again.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
perfect.
Sorry I got here late but you'll probably have the problem again shortly so I'll take a shot at it.
You can't move the top hinge this way but you can move the bottom with a nice 12 # sledge hammer. No doubt the base is into the bathroom too far and needs to be tapped outward.
I'm saying that the wall that the door hangs on is not very solid and needs some coaxing to get the wall back where it once was. Then the door won't swing when the hinge barrels are verticle. LOL Mesic
A 12# sledge can be very useful when trimming. Restraint is the key word when selecting this adjuster tool. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07