Greetings,
My house is 100 percent concrete block walls, interior and exterior in 4 and 6 inch thicknesses, stuccoed both sides; slab on grade.
I’d like to run some additional electrical circuits around the inside walls concealed behind a deep wooden picture mold.
I figure I’ll have to drill dozens of holes through the walls and my cordless drill wont do the job.
What kind of drill should I get that wont take forever to go through the blocks?
Thanks,
Hank.
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Replies
A corded electric SDS rotary hammer drill will do quick work for you and won't break your bank account.
Lots of brands to choose from....I've got a couple of Milwaukies that have served me well for a number of years.
Thanks Notchman,
What is SDS???????????/
Hank.
SDS is one style of the mounting shank on the bit that locks it into the drill. There is also Super SDS and a splined style, but for what you're doing, the SDS should be plenty adequate.
Just don't bother with those masonry bits with straight shanks that fit a standard Jacobs chuck. They are mostly worthless, IMO, unless you just have a small hole or two and time on your hands.
A decent rotary hammer drill will probably cost in the neighborhood of a good cordless drill and you'll probably find plenty of occasional use for it once you see how well it works.
Thanks Notchman,
I'll do some research and looking in the local stores.
We have 50hz power supply here and Hitachi seems to be the only choice.
Hank.
Do you know what SDS stands for ? I was told it stands for " Special Spline Drive", but the guy that told me tends to make stuff up ! Just curious...
Well, you made me look it up!
Apparently, the SDS clamping systems was developed/invented by Bosch, when it was still a German company.
So SDS is an acronym for the German Steck-Dreh-Sitz which translated to English is Insert-Twist-Stay which describes the clamping/locking system.
I was told Slotted Drive System but like the kraut Steck-Dreh-Sitz better - it sort of rolls off the tongue. Thanks for the enlightening.
To be honest, I had no clue, but to answer roofguys Q, which I was inspired to do because I didn't know, it just took a quick Google search....
Sometime the internet drives me crazy.....and sometimes I can actually learn something. I guess it's all a matter of how you ask the question.
Maybe this could become one of those Newbe trivia questions, along the lines of "what are the black diamonds on a tape......?"
On edit, I just had another thought....to become a member of BT, Taunton should require passing a brief test....diamonds on a tape, meaning of SDS, should you tear of the cellophane strips on shingles, etc. Requiring new members to pass the exam would save a LOT of bandwidth.
Edited 3/12/2007 9:24 pm by Notchman
Edited 3/12/2007 10:20 pm by Notchman
The black diamond spacing is how far you get in a Home Depot before someone asks if they can help you and then looks at you with a blank stare when you tell them what you need! (I think the previous sentence will just about fit between the diamonds.) ;-)
SDS is Same Dailey "Stuff"... right???Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Thanks, Notchman!! I guess I could have done the search myself, but it's more fun to post here and see the responses. At least I can finally sleep at night!
Consider something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-11224VSR-D-Handle-SDS-plus-Rotary/dp/B00006AG7E/ref=sr_1_1/102-7043355-8050504?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1173468121&sr=1-1
Ditto basswoods link to the Bulldog. I would get it corded not cordless. Especially inside the house you will always be close to a plug, and the batteries won't wear down. When I bought mine it came with 3-4 bits in common sizes, and they are durable."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Thanks Eddie,
I will go corded; have to see the 50hz/60hz scenario first though.
Hank.
I believe most drills are "frequency agnostic".
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Thanks Dan,
I'll take a look at the local drills see how they are listed 50 or 60hz.
Hank.
I think you wil find that you can run the drill on 50 Hz with no problem, as long as the voltage is correct. I think it will just turn a little slower. But I could be wrong."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Eddie,
It is called island speed.
Hank.
"soon come, mon ...."
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Most standard drills have brush-type motors. These will run on DC, and will actually run a hair cooler at 50Hz vs 60Hz. Only the speed control requires AC.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Thanks basswood,
Hitachi seems to be the only choice on island.
I'll take a look and see if the corded drills are listed for 50hz or 60hz.
Hank.
Look at the link basswood posted on the Bosch Bulldog. It's one of those tools that, once I had sprung for one, I smacked myself on the head and asked "What took me so long to get this thing?" SDS rocks! You will need to purchase special bits for it though. Not cheap (not all that expensive either), but they last about 100X longer than the masonary bits you get for your regular drill. A perfect excuse for a new tool. As Nike says, "Just Do It!"
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Thanks Mike,
I do need one; no wood framing on island (termites).
Hank.
What are the dozens of holes for- the conduit clamp anchors? I have a Milwaukee 18V hammer drill and have drilled 5/8" holes in 15" thick poured concrete with no problems. 3/16" for TapCons are a piece of cake. If you already have power, the Bosch is a really good price, though.
Highfigh,
I have 2 circuits in the house 20A each; 1 for lights and 1 for outlets with 4 empty spaces for additional circuits.
Wife bought new fridge, new freezer and we have no outside lights or outlets; the washer is outside and runs on an extension cord through the window.
I'll be drilling lots of holes through the walls for new circuits room to room; pulling the wires through sleeves; probably 20mm.
Also I need a spare for future guest apartment.
Walls are SOLID block stuccoed.
Thanks,
Hank.
Gotta second the SDS-plus vote. When I got my Bosch, I went out and drilled a 20" deep hole, 1" in diameter, completely through a big chunk of granite in the back yard.
Darned exciting, in a tool-nerd kinda' way!
Forrest
Forrest,
I have to go through 6 inch block walls for 20mm sleeves; about 3/4 inch diameter.
Does a 3/4 inch drill make a 3/4 inch hole if it is rattling around in the block???
How neat are the holes? Can you prevent blowout?
Thanks,
Hank.
<Does a 3/4 inch drill make a 3/4 inch hole if it is rattling around in the block???>
Yes - the drill doesn't rattle at any big level - just at the precise level that turns rocks and masonry to dust! I use a lot of wedge anchors (RedHeads), and the hole in concrete seems pretty exact - more so than my old, loose, way with a hammer drill and a Jacobs-type masonry bit
It's also easy to slow down on breaking through to make a smooth exit.
Forrest
Drill a small pilot hole all the way thru the wall first, follow up with the bigger drill bit from both sides, no blowout at all.
Thanks dovetail,
Will give it a try.
Hank.
Method works best if you drill most of the way from one side , helps keep the alingment. The pilot hole simply guides the tip of the bit to center.
By the way , any idea if you have re-bar in that wall?
Trying to drill re-bar with the standard masonary bit will destroy the bit in short order.
If so then you will need a special re-bar "eating" bit for the drill.
Actually you use the special bit in a 1/2" drill with a low RPM setting and no hammer action..
No rebar,
Hank.
"How neat are the holes? Can you prevent blowout?"
An SDS will make holes that are considerably neater than a normal hammer drill. You will get blowout on the exit side though. About the only way around that that I know of is to drill a pilot hole all the way through the wall with a small bit and then drill the final size hole from both sides.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Thanks Mike,
There will be a 1x4 continuous where the holes are drilled; applied after drilling.
This along with a pilot bit should help.
Bosch...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Bosch makes their products in any voltage and HTZ...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Nice to know.
Thanks,
Hank.
IMO Bosch has it all over Hitacie in CS and product...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
MERC,
All we have locally is Hitachi.
I should probably wait until End of May when I'll be back in the USA and get Bosch.
Gives me 3 months to do the planning.
Sounds reasonable.
Hank.
now that's a plan...
IMERC....Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I don't know what your budget is but, for me anyway, Hilti is the way to go. I do a lot of drilling in concrete and masonary and my Hilti TE 25 has never let me down. It will operate fine on 50 or 60 Hz. It is a little on the high side price-wise but, in this case, you get what you pay for. I have also used the Bosch tool quite a bit and have no complaints with it either.
Mc,
I'm a DIY; don't need commercial equipment.
Think the Bosch will do great.
Thanks,
Hank.
might want to consider upping the drill's capcity over a 7/8" or 1" SDS plus and get into the SDS max...
say.. 1-9/16"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Let me measure the O.D. of the pvc; looks like 20mm if I recall; have to wait til I go back to the shop.
Thanks,
Hank.
Speak English, Jackie.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
How about Dutch or Papiamentu
Hank.
1/2" ID tube...
1" (25mm) hole will work well...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Since you don't have to have the drill for 3 months, you might try pawn shops and e-bay for a Hilti. It took me several tries, but I finally scored a TE-6 for about $260 (U.S.) on e-bay. I found one with a kinda odd ending time - that seems to help with popular items. And I got a handful of bits with it too.If you are going to drill a lot of holes at one time, you will appreciate that low vibration of a Hilti. I had to do a couple of holes and I rented a Bulldog. It worked fine, but even for those few small holes, I felt the vibration. Once I realized that I was going to have to drill more holes over time, I started bidding on Hiltis at e-bay. The main problem was figuring out what model I wanted.
Thanks Bryan,
I'm also going to check with my neighbor; he works for Flamingo TV; runs cable through walls all day; see what he uses.
By the way Flamingo doesn't use sleeves and they staple the cable directly to the block walls with a hammer.
Ebay is also an option.
Hank.
The drill itself need not break the bank, but the bits might!
Harbor freight sells a perfectly adequate SDS roto-hammer for about $75. While it comes with some bits, you'll need to get some more.
You're pushing the limits of the drill, using masonry bits. You will need to make holes about 1 1/8" diameter, just to allow for MC or 1/2" fittings. Even 1/2" "running thread" will have a tight fit in a 7/8" hole.
So, I recommend you also spend the $100 or so for a Bosch core drill. You'll need to buy the 'hole saw' part, an arbor, and a pilot point. This type of bit will also give you a lot less problems with 'blow out' on the other side of the wall.
You will note that I am assuming that you will be running your wire in pipe, or using MC.
Concealing individual wires within wood molding has not been allowed in the NEC since 1935.
Romex is not allowed in masonry.
For anchoring to block walls, either the plastic screw anchors, or "wall dogs" have worked well for me. The 'blue screws' have not done as well. I do not like "shot in" anchors, as they are difficult to remove if you need to reposition something.
now he needs to up the ante to a 1-9/16" SDS max....Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
reno,
We run wires in pvc here; I'm using pvc sleeves through the block.
Wires will be run along a 1X4 continuous at frieze height and stapled to this; molding will be strictly to conceal the wires; wont touch them.
I would like to get some decent bits long enough for the 3/4 pvc
Hank.
While SDS bits are available in 1 1/8" (the size for 3/4 pipe), making the holes is not without some little challenges. I suggest 'working up' to the full diameter, starting with a 3/8 or 1/2" bit. A smaller bit will wander in the block. Even with the 3/8" bit, care should be taken not to bow the bit by pushing too hard as it drills. There are cheap carbide-grit hole saws available, in the tile section of the local box store. These are good for scoring the face of the block, which will help prevent blow-out. With romex concealed behind the wood, the NEC would want you to protect the cable with steel. The easiest way is to get small steel channel, and lay it over it; then cover with wood. While this channel is available at the box stores, their prices are WAY high .... go to a steel supplier instead.
Thanks reno,
I'll start slowly with smaller bits until I feel comfortable with the drill.
Hank.
HD's lack turning torque.. you could bind a larger bit in a smaller hole a lot...
it'd be aggravating that is fer sure...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!