We’re building a balcony on the outside of our house and are attaching 1×6 deck boards to 14ga metal ‘C’ purlins and have to drill a starter hole in the metal to get a screw through the deck board and into the metal.
Have burned up three drill bits drilling a three holes into the metal and this won’t do.
There are about 100 boards to attach, approximately 9 screws per board.
Anyone have any ideas to do this?
Replies
Use good quality bits
Use oil
GO SLOW, with lots of pressure. Don't "spin" the bit.
Use some lightweight oil.
What DanH said, plus center punch the metal for a more reliable bite to start the bit.
14ga - little thicker than 1/16" right?
How big are the holes? You might do well to pilot with a 1/8" or so then ream to something larger. Two drills, goes pretty quick and is easier on bits.
Your shavings from the bits should be one continous curley cue or close to it - aim for that result and you will figure out speed & pressure required pretty fast. It will be slower and have more pressure than you think......
Jim
stay away from the made in china...
http://fastenmsc.stores.yahoo.net/thinwaferhead.html
View ImageView ImageView Image
Wood-to-Metal Tek Fasteners - No pre-drilling, fast, efficient attachment of wood to steel
Point has precise cutting edges to improve drill performance with less effort.
Special winged fasteners ream a hole in wood preventing thread engagement during drilling.
Wafer head design has a large bearing surface ideal for plywood.
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Compatible with ACQ treated wood.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
You been walking around with that picture in your pocket just waiting for this, ain't you?LOL
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
i am so busted...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
I don't understand the little winged thing. Doesn't that prevent engagement entirely? My brain must be missing something here.
the wings cut a clearence hole in the wood for the screw so that the screw doesn't bind or fight against it's self when yur useing the drill function of the screw...
the wings break off when they contact the metal...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
Edited 10/11/2009 2:45 pm by IMERC
Oh, I see. I didn't realize those things break off. Clever.
I've also used just the 'regular" Self-drilling/self-tapping screws for this. I just run the screw in until it hits the metal, reverse the drill's rotation to "clear out" the wood chips, and then run the screw foward into the metal. Leaves a "tighter" clearence hole in the wood, less wobble when running through the metal." Although I have the right to remain stupid, I try not to abuse that right"
Makes sense. I'll give that a try.
im not sure why your torching bits man, self tapping screws go through 14 ga steel everyday, studs, steel track etc.
Try getting self tappers, instead of predrilling.
Ive gotten some heavy duty self tappers from fastenal(maybe Fasteners) that work great.
Woods favorite carpenter
What he said...
What they said.View Image
What do you think of the Festenal stores and products? I have read about the chain and there is a new store openning near here.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Fastenal is headquartered near here. I'm told they treat their people right, and they run a tight ship -- nothing fancy, avoid debt, CEO is only paid like $250K. I've done pretty well on their stock (as in "stock market") in the past. Have only been into their store a couple of times, since they have a minimum order if you don't have an account there.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
service is good...
pricey...
products supplied by low bidder...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
Fastenal: I have used them for about 8 years here.
I can get jobsite delivery sometimes at no cost if the $ amount is large enough. Good service, can be pricy , local one here has great selection of fasteners ( concrete anchors , nuts, bolts,, washers, SS stuff, including SS all thread), bits, hardware, epoxies etc. ( IE Simpson ) Tools tend to be pricy. I swear by their Epcon A-7 epoxy for concrete, only product to use in the winter here as a clean but wet hole is no problem. Definitely worth checking out and grabbing a catalog from. The store may not have it in stock but regional warehouses make for quick delivery of out of stock items. 2nd. on it being a stock to watch. Should move if and when commercial building picks up.
Life is Good
if the delivery from the warehouse won't fit the time line or the inventory is down they go over to Home Desperate and restock...
saw that a few times around here...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
I've been reading recommendations on the stock for 2-3 years now, but had never seen a store or handled their products. Now tho, the comment that they treat their people well is also important, as one of my DILs just had a job offer there.
She normally works as a waitress and is darn good one, hauling in tips up to 200 a nite but during winter she looks for other. She applied there, thinking they might give her a cashier or janitor type job seasonally, but she is intelligent and speaks well, so they asked her on second interview if she would take a job as a floor sales person. She said, Sure, but I know nothing about screws, so you will have to train me first.They do the product and sales training, and the salary and benefits package sounded very attractive. She is taking the job and thinking if she likes it, might stay on year round.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
A lot of their stuff is sourced from China. They keep the savings.
when ya find the stores that carry PFC brand...
leave it it on the shelf and go elsewhere....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
sounding like they sell service and availability more than high quality
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
correct...
but they do carry high quality... for a price...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
same ol supplier the salesman makes the difference, come to my jobsite twice a week, will bring anything a call for and order anything that i need. They service everything they sell so its a gret deal.
Sales all the time, he has driven away with my paycheck more than once lol. Woods favorite carpenter
As you might imagine - I sometimes like to use oddball fasteners. I've always gotten great service at their stores... I just wish they were closer to me and open later.They even lent me a $150 tool with just me address as collateral. They really go for a personal touch.
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
Well, with a DIL working there, how much more personal can I get?I got to drool over her study catalouge this weekend
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
For metal than thin, you can get short bits - these will flex less. Get made in USA bits; I've never found good imported bits. Go to a proper tool or industrial supply store.
I concur with others: oil, sharp bits, don't push too hard.
I also concur that, if you can get good self-tapping screws, that might work faster yet.
I'll bet you are using wood-only bits. Any chance you have the drill in reverse by mistake?
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
what IMERC said... they come in fine & course threads... for 14ga.. look for the fine thread..
p
Buy Tek wood to metal screws! They drill their own hole
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks for the input from all you Breaktimers. Appreciate your expertise.
Gup
Coated metal bit. Several available coatings would do the trick: titanium nitride, titanium carbonitride, and titanium aluminum nitride.
I've done work on all-metal warehouse-type building 'systems', and the self-tapping/drilling screws are the ONLY way to go.View Image
Looks like it's "Back to basics" time.
I agree with several of the others: your first choice ought to be self-tapping screws. TEKS is one quality brand name; Fastenal is a supplier of decent fasteners as well. Contrary to usual practice, you'll do better with an impact driver than a drill, and a square or hex drive rather than a Phillips.
NOW... to drill metal:
1) Never underestimate the value of a center punch. If the punch is able to pierce the sheet metal, so much the better (spring loaded "automatic" punches are easiest to use);
2) Drill bits come most often in one of two point styles. You want the 'flatter' 135 degree "split" point. The point looks like a bow tie when viewed from the end (Coatings like the gold dtuff are nice, but are not essential, and won't make up for a bad point);
3) You won't need much of a pilot hole for the screw; 1/8" will likely work. Go to a professional tooling supplier and buy an envelope with 10 in it. While there, get a stick of lube 'wax' (Just poke the bit into the wax before drilling); finally,
4) As others have said: check drill rotation, drill with slow RPMs and lots of pressure.
what are impacting...
bits or screws...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
An "Impact driver" is a tool that looks like a cordless drill, but is much better at driving screws. When the screw starts meeting resistance, it 'hammers around," rather than 'down,' making it very effective at installing screws.
ummmmmm... I know what an impact driver is...
I wanted to know if you were using the impact on the drilling process or the screwing process even though the screws have clearence wings and use a type F tapping/cutter...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
Ahh ... actually, I use the impact for both! I have found the impact driver to be an excellent drill as well as driver.
To drill with an impact driver, you need to either get hex-shank drill bits, or find a chuch with a hex shank (my chuck is from Makita). Since the impact driver lets the chuck spin freely (at rest), you'll need a chuck with a key - or you'll never be able to remove the bit.
If you're pre-drilling, the hex chuck makes changing bits a snap. Literally.
so what yur sayinf is that yur using the impact for drilling meatal as well as drivinf TEKs into metal with type F thread cutter..
you sure about this???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
Yes, I do that, and I am very comfortable doing so!
FWIW, I first got the impact driver for boring large holes in studs. With the proper bits, the impact driver was the cats' meow. (FWIW, Milwaukee makes a larger impact driver expressly for use with their Forstener-style bits).
My next attempted use was enlatfing holes in metal, using a 'Unibit." Again, the tool worked exceptionally well.
When I finally used it for driving screws - eve smaller lag bolts - I was amazed at how well it worked.
I then got some hex shank bits and tried it for drilling metal. Again, excellent results. The impact action does a fine job of breaking up the chips, as well as the burrs that form as you 'punch through.'
My conventional drill is feeling lonely these days.
so I went and tried the specific screws mentioned into like materials...
the clearence wings broke off early...
and the hammer action ruined the thread cutter portion...
at ninety cents a screw (HD1/4x2-3/4"-#5 TEK)... no thanks...
one change.. used 12GA steel..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
Hammer action? I thought youse guys were talking about impact driver, NOT hammer drill. Two different animals, of course.View Image
the impactor does lend to a hammer action...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
True dat, but rotational as opposed to in-line.View Image
a little bit in line but the hammer rotation destroys the thread cutter on the screw shank and when it binds the impactor rips the head of the screw off or rings it off at the thread cutter...
so now we have a shank or a broken screw that needs to be extracted...
why go there to start with...
an impactor is too agressive of a tool for this type of screw...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
I'm sorry to hear that; I've run plenty of Teks-type screws in with my impact driver. I've even used it to run screws into electrical outlet boxes; those look to be about 1/8" steel.
where they type F's???
more than likely not....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
With the little 'wings?' I'll conceed that I've driven very few of those .... but failed to notice any difference once I got them started. (The ones I encounter are very heavily galvanized, and often drilled poorly).
If you do drill a hole first I've found cobalt drill bits last a lot longer.
Smaller dia bits take quite a beating drilling metal.
Will Rogers
Thank you, popawheelie...