I had decorative concrete put in year and a half ago. I looks great on the walkway and porch. The drive way looks awful. The concrete is flaking off. I had the guy come out last year to look at the problem. He explained that it was because I parked my truck on it. Salt dripping off the truck cases this problem. This is after being sealed. So I thought that maybe it is my fault. So I fallowed the guys instructions and resealed but it happened again this year. I have sean many concrete driveways that this guy did and they all look great. So I have a feeling that the concrete is bad or how they put it down was not right. I am looking for a web sight or information that will help me understand what is going on with my concrete. The owner of this company(the guy) does not want to give this information out.
As a business owner I am willing to own up to any mistakes I have made. Customer sevice is key in our lines of work. That is how we make future clients.Thank you for your help.
Jason
Edited 2/11/2006 9:05 pm ET by clattenburg
Replies
There are many reasons why concrete can fail. Can you post a photo?
One of the things that causes the surface to flake up (it's called spalling) is if it is trowelled before all of the bleed water is gone. Another similar cause is when the concrete goes off before it is properly finished and the finisher adds water to the surface to increase the workability. In either case water is trapped under the trowelled surface. This weakens the surface, next freeze/thaw cycle the failure begins to appear, every successive cycle makes it worse.
Another scenario, if you live in a cold climate with a lot of moisture and big temperature swings and the concrete was not air-entrained, everything might otherwise have been done right but it's still freezing and popping. This would not be the first time in the history of concrete that the contractor did everything right and the batch plant screwed up.
But none of this may be what happened here at all.
No matter what happened, you might be in an intractable position, because a contractor either does or does not want to stand behind his work. If he doesn't, you probably have no way to force the issue.
It might just be easier and cheaper to pull it out and try again. Maybe your contractor will split the cost with you.
Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. -- Mark Twain, author and humorist (1835-1910)
I had decorative concrete put in year and a half ago. I looks great on the walkway and porch. The drive way looks awful. The concrete is flaking off.
This is quite typical for these sufaces. They need to bring up alot of fat to the surface to mould it. It results in an inferior product that does not with stan heavy traffic.
Sorry. Pavers will do the same thing.
You mention salt, so I guess (fill in your profile please) you live in a cold/freeze/thaw enviroment. This stuff does not hold up well from what I have seen.
Arizona, South Carolina, Florida, fine.
Eric
[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
It is not normal for concrete to spall. He is required to fix it, and you can go to court to compel him to if it comes to that.
His line that you damaged the driveway by parking on it holds no weight. First off, in nearly every state there is a legal principle called implied warranty of fitness. That means that, regardless of any stated warranty, anything sold comes with an implied warranty that it is fit for the purpose for which it is sold. In many states he cannot disclaim that warranty, and you cannot sign that warranty away even if he has it in his contract. The purpose of a driveway is to drive and park on it, therefore, he may not deny fixing it for that reason.
Second, spalling concrete was incorrectly installed. Highways, parking lots, loading docks, bridges, and so forth are constructed all the time, have salt and heavy loads on them, and don't fall apart from one truck. He used either substandard material or placed or cured it wrong.
If I were you, I would talk to a lawyer before talking to him again about it. If you talk to the contractor first he may talk you into agreeing to something less that what you are entitled to. After you know what your rights are you can do what you want, but you are at a grave disadvantage until you know your rights.
You may need to hire a licensed professional engineer if you want to prove what the defect was, but I don't think that is going to be necessary. The driveway clearly violates the implied warranty of fitness so the cause is really irrelevant.
This is probably too expensive of a job to not spend a phone call getting professional advice first.
I'm suspecting the original poster has mis-spoke.
These decorative samped surfaces are commonly a topping on an existing slab. His problems could be either a disintegration of the topping, which could draw suspicion of hot mud, or an inadequate sealer used. Or if it's delaminating from the slab, a problem with the original surface.
The first two seems would be the insallers responsibilty (how long had it been?). The last, is iffy. What was on it before? Why didn't the new stuff bind? Was the installer aware that someone put a coat of Thompson's on it before? That's a hypothetical...
I don't know much about concrete, but I'm pretty good at smelling BS when it's nearby.
It's your fault the driveway is failing because you park on it?!?!
That's a classic. I wonder how that will work in other businesses.....
"It's your fault you got sick.......you ate the food. If you didn't eat it you wouldn't have gotten sick"
"It's your fault the shower surround failed. You got it wet."
"Your floor squeeks? Well I suppose you're walking all over it too, huh?"
I'm sorry I can't offer you some concrete information regarding your driveway (all right, that wasn't funny). But I do think you've got a right to be questioning this guy's work. Maybe it is perfectly normal, but I'd be doing a little research too if I were you. Any chance you can post a picture or two? Someone here will be able to offer you some information, I'm sure of that.
Hope it works out for you though.
Here are the photos of the driveway that you guys requested.
Enjoy!!!! I don't enjoy looking at them.
that is really common with STAMP CONCRETE, not with regular concrete. It has to do with the method of stamping. Theys alot of paste on top and with them walking and pounding before it set up tight, it compact the air entrainment so when freezing cycle starts, it will pop. Now its not a great job but its common. My driveway did it too.. 2+3=7
Judging by the license plate, I'd say you get some pretty serious freeze/thaw, no?If the walkway and the porch and all of the other work this guy has done for the neighbors looks good, then he knows how to do it so it works in your area.Unless for some reason you drive through muriatic acid on a regular basis it is highly unlikely that anything dripping off of your car could do that. Too bad he chose to answer you that way.I'd talk with him again. Whether this is a common failure or not, a contractor who cared about his reputation would pull that out and replace it. If he's unwilling to replace the driveway, you might meet him part way on the cost. It's not in his interest to have anyone talking about his work being substandard.While you might have recourse under the law, if you go that way usually the only two people who win are your lawyer and his lawyer.Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. -- Mark Twain, author and humorist (1835-1910)
I've had the inside of my garage do that from the salt dripping off in the winter. And no where else. Spalled a path the length of the car tires about 12 iches wide, in some spots up to two inches deep. It started the first winter and simply didn't stop until I powerwashed out the tracks are retopping with an acrylic topping. Of course, it didn't match and looked like a kid did it, but it held.
I believe Ontario uses their share of road salt...
Thanks. That's why I hang around here -- I learn a few new things every day.Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. -- Mark Twain, author and humorist (1835-1910)
after 24 years working at a cement manu. plant it very
well could have been a bad batch of cement that the
redi mix plant got hold of. ive seen them try to make
the grey gold out of waste dust, pure rock dust,
and dead possums. they have quality controll labs
but they have had to eat a few bad jobs that were
done that q.c. let slip by. that were directly tied back
to them. I would call the redi mix suppier and they would
probley like to see the work. well anyway it would be
interesting to see were the finger points next. am allso
inclined to agree with the road salt explenation. D.W.
Were the walk way and porch finished first and the drive way second on the same day? Odds on the drive had setup too much to be stamped with out "softing" with water and killing the mix. Winter salt won't help but unless you cover the drive in salt at worst you would have two strips bad! re-do the driveway is the only cure!