Hello all,
Question on paper corner bead…what’s the secret to setting outside paper corners??? I know the “pros” use a tool to “set” it in a bed of mud. Don’t do a lot of this but enough to want to get better finish/quicker at it. Is the tool the secret?
Currently, I have been pre-mudding the corner, setting the bead, adhering the paper with a taping knife…let dry, then loading the corner. Most areas are OK but the occasional section has either not enough mud or I scraped to much out when trowelling causing areas that don’t “stick”. It all looks good till the next coat and paper bubbles where not stuck!! (now visualize trowel, hawk and mud now flying across room followed by lots of profanity)
Tips or advice? (“hire at taper!”…or..”Seek drywall anger management counseling!”)
Thanks
TN
Replies
Are you using regular paper tape for outside corners? If so thats your problem.
Use either Vinyl or steel corner bead. I use a narrow crown stapler to attach it to the walls and Durabond it in.
THose areas where the paper bubbles is where you pulled all the mud out from underneath the tape. Or there wasn't any there to begin with. Either way cut out the bubble and Durabond the hole in.
Stilletto,
No not paper tape... production paper corner bead (tape bonded to metal corner)
I was going to edit my post after thinking about that tape. Sounds like the stuff I have used. Looks like plain paper tape with two metal strips attached to it.
Maybe it's not even that. Something new I haven't gotten a chance to learn the hard way on yet. LOL
Are you using a flat knife to bed the tape into the mud? I have used an outside corner trowel for this and it worked well. The angle at which you hold the knife and pressure dictates how much mud you wipe out from underneath the tape.
Yep that's the stuff...while std metal corner is readily avail. paper is what's used now by the pros to produce a "stronger/better" corner. I have used lots of metal (have the crimper tool) and found if set "straight", it works great and is the easiest joint to finish.
I'am using a 6" flat knife to finish....and yes taking to much compound out from behind. Does the o/s corner trowel actually set tape in to the mud?
The trowel I used set it in the mud easily. I was having issues with the tape wrinkling and pulling away from the drywall in areas from crooked framing.
I say the trowel and Lowes and gave it a shot. It sets both sides at once. Makes a fairly straight line too. I think it was around $10.
It looks like an inside corner trowel but the ears form a 90 away from your hands instead of on top of them.
Thanks Stilletto!
Our pro does not use any special tool to set the paper leg corners. These are a tremendous improvement over the all metal corners set with a clincher and nails. Just as in setting flat tape, you need to use enough mud and if you do it quickly and smoothly you will get a much better job. That is the main difference between you and a pro. There is no shortcut for this.
Hey there Townail,
Here's a little trick I use. I can't take credit for though. This one my taper showed me. Use a paper cornerbead. Thats the one with the metal strip on the inside of the corner. Lay it on the ground and fill with sheetrock 90. You can substitute with Durabond 90 if you like. It is important during the drwalling process that you stop the drywall just short of the corner on both walls. (1/2"-5/8" is good). This will give the mud some place to go.
Press the mud filled corner against the wall. Press hard and make sure it's straight floor to ceiling. Squeeze out the excess mud with your figures. Then trowel over with a skim coat.
The result is a strong corner that will take a hit and not fall apart. And it dries quick.
I hope that helps. It's helped me.
Dave
Dr Dave
Thanks for the advice, i will try this.
The brand of paper outside corner I use has a thick part on the corner and thin paper 1/4" or so on the edge of the tape.
I have to set the thick part first, pushing with the knife and then set the PITA narrow paper edge part next. If the narrow part isn't set well, then I get bubbles along the edge.
It may be you aren't getting the edge set well or your mud is too dry or too little.
patience patience patience. I like the idea of prefiling the corner bead and then setting it on the corner. It sounds like that person also loads the corner before placing the corner on. that also sounds like a good idea. As for your technique it sounds like you are pressing to hard. ease off a little bit. Also is the corner you are using preformed? I know there is a dfferent type here in indiana that is preformed, inside and outside corners with the paper on it. I like it because now I dont have service calls on corner beads coming off or cracking.
It's nocoat ultraflex. I comes in roll. I was just pointing out there is an extra small flap which needs to be set after the thick part. (I wish I could find a picture).If that small flap isn't set well, then it will bubble and the main part has a tendency to want to pull loose.I also love the stuff.
ah yes i know what you are talking about. fun suff.
There is also a product called Strait-flex. Instead of metal it has plastic in it.
Cuts with scissors, does off angles, and coats in two trips. I have used it with durabond 20 and had lots of luck with it.
Cool! I'll have to give strait-flex a try
I like using Durabond under the corners. I load up the drywall and set the corner with my thumb and finger. This way you can feel and control how much mud is under the tape. Then just feather the edge lightly with a knife.
I'm ordering a corner rolling tool from a supplier for those jobs with more than a few corners.
Bo,
Ah... corner roller...is this the tool I've seen? Drywall supplier would be the source for such? Have you used one?
Yes, They are nice!! But not cheap. Be sure to get the one that fits the brand of corner tape you use. I get most of my unusual stuff from All-Wall.com
I would never use metal corner again.
Ease up on the knife and perhaps flatten the knife angle for more of a pressing action rather than scraping. It helps me get fewer pops if the mud is slightly thinned. On exterior corners I also like to check the placement of the corner bead with a 12" knife to double check that the corner is actually proud of the wall, but not too far.
These type of corners attach much better if there's a continuous fill of mud for a suction effect so try to avoid gaps in coverage.
Best of luck.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Here's what I use for inside and outside corners that are obtuse and also for any outside corners where I may not use corner nead.
I believe you can even get this at HD. Be sure to buy the liquid you add to the mud...helps it stick better.I recently used it in this room.
https://www.grabberman.com/ItemDetails.aspx?itemid=SFO100&pkey=Taping+%26+Finishing+Products%7cStraightFlex+Corner+Tape%7cSTRAIT-FLEX&pval=5%7c46%7cSFO100&pIds=CategoryID%7cProductTypeID%7citemid
View Image
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html?ex=1255665600en=890a96189e162076ei=5090
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited 4/15/2007 10:59 pm ET by andybuildz
I love straight flex, I could almost make a living repairing bonus rooms done with that stuff. I could be wrong, but on the ones I repair, they crack full length, that is four different long joints too. I have been paper taping them on each side and getting good results.Nobody is as good as they seem, nobody is as bad as they seem either.
Nothing beats StraightFlex. You walk away and never worry! Plus it makes it a dream getting a straight line that long. That room in my picture is over 30'. I could attach one end with a screw and pull the other end with my hand. Try that with paper.
But be sure to add the liquid to your mud!
The cost of Straight Flex is a little pricey but not that bad all things considered!
Also...be careful folding that stuff. I've ripped my finger open more than once.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html?ex=1255665600en=890a96189e162076ei=5090
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Yup, I also love straight-flex. There are 2 thicknesses. I use the thinner of the 2, which I think is the original. I love how you can make a real tight 90° inside corner with it.
But what is this liquid that you add to the mud to make it stick better?
I've used water to thin it down for top-coating. I've also tried a little soap, but can't see that it makes a difference.
I searched all over on line but couldnt find it until I hit Ebay of all places. Great price too! This stuff ain't cheap.
http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Bottles-Strait-Flex-Super-Bond-Drywall-Comp-Additive_W0QQitemZ170101012125QQihZ007QQcategoryZ26197QQcmdZViewItem
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html?ex=1255665600en=890a96189e162076ei=5090
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Thanks. I'm going to give it a try one of these days. It has me wondering, though, how regular white glue would work. I may experiment with it.
-Don
It has me wondering, though, how regular white glue would work. <<<<I hope you're kidding!
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html?ex=1255665600en=890a96189e162076ei=5090
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
It has me wondering, though, how regular white glue would work. <<<<
I hope you're kidding!
Actually, I wasn't, but I should have been. It took me a little while to try it and I didn't want to post back here until I did. The bottom line is that white glue ruins joint compound. It changes the texture so as to make it unusable and reduces adhesion to almost nothing. I was somewhat surprised.
I also tried adding primer to compound. Primer doesn't seem to increase adhesion, but it does make it a little "creamier" and maybe easier to use for topcoating.
One of these days, I'll get around to trying the Strait-Flex Super-Bond Drywall Compound Additive you mentioned. Thanks for the tip.
-Don
What you should use is 3-M 61 spray for plastic corner bead..Home Depot even carries it by me or you can also use Elmers spray (its not white glue). The Elmers spray works too and is cheaper than the 3-M 61 but maybe use the 3-M first and experiment with the Elmers spray just so you don't need to take my word for it (do a little test piece if you want on a scrap). Lemmie know how it worked out for you. Both glues can be gotten at HD.
"Revolution is not something fixed in ideology, nor is it something fashioned to a particular decade. It is a perpetual process embedded in the human spirit." Abbie Hoffman
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I have been working on repairing this stuff, is it coming off because no "liquid" was added to the mud that was sticking it on?Nobody is as good as they seem, nobody is as bad as they seem either.
http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Bottles-Strait-Flex-Super-Bond-Drywall-Comp-Additive_W0QQitemZ170101012125QQihZ007QQcategoryZ26197QQcmdZViewItem
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html?ex=1255665600en=890a96189e162076ei=5090
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
What are you doing wityh that roller? Skim coat?
Also -- how do you tool the corner after you apply the straight flex. I've tried both ways - parallel and perpendicular to the joint - but I'm unhappy with my obtuse angles.
What are you doing wityh that roller? Skim coat?Also -- how do you tool the corner after you apply the straight flex. I've tried both ways - parallel and perpendicular to the joint - but I'm unhappy with my obtuse angles.<<<<<I'm painting/priming with the roller. No need to skim coat....the walls and ceiling came out smooth as glass.First coat I do both sides of the seam with not much mud into the crease....just enough to cover the tape especially the edges.
Then I do one side at a time letting each side dry. I usually use hot mud for my second coats so I can do both sides in the same day and get a coat of all purpose (regular) compound on one side right into the crease. Next day I do the opposite side right into the crease after I knock off any nuggies hanging down from the day before.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html?ex=1255665600en=890a96189e162076ei=5090
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
In addition to the other posts. make sure you are using all purpose and not a lightweight mud. Durabond is fine if you work fast enough.
We only use tape on bead and for angles other than 90 degrees we use Nocoat, the best flex tape out there.
Blisters are a pain but always pop up, even for the pros. Just cut 'em out and patch with hot mud.
Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
Paper offers no protection to outside corners. Metal is what I have used and if you want straight and crisp, that's a good way to get it. Vinyl is good too, but I haven't used it myself. I re-did every corner in my place, inside and outside, and there wasn't a good one before I started. They were all crooked, cracked, wavey, nasty and when I finished, it looked better than a lot of new houses I see and work in.
Paper offers no protection to outside corners. Metal is what I have used and if you want straight and crisp, that's a good way to get it.
Finally. I was going to go there but didn't want to dig out he flame suit.
Paper corners? Yeah right. Not on my job.
Diminishing level of acceptable finish is the only thing I can think of that would justify using paper on outside corners.
Clinch 'em, nail 'em, coat then up with setting compound oh my!
Be doing the right thing. Be a good hard, strong, straight corner.[email protected]
I've done plenty of ouside taped corners...mainly when I do some of these psychodelic soffets some architects design for ceilings over islands and the like...they've gone from maybe four feet straight to curves...some even teardrop or kidney shaped...looks horrible IMO but thats what they want...looks like a friggin' pizza place in multimillion dollar homes. More times than not its to cover low pipes for one reason or other...I've combined all kinds of things from vinyl edges to StraightFlex to metal. Its just good to know all the options cuz you never know...
If you start with a metal corner bead you have to continue with it so the edges are all identical...
I don't know if you've ever used StraightFlex but the corners are pretty ridgid/solid as long as you're not bumping into them which is the only place I'd use it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html?ex=1255665600en=890a96189e162076ei=5090
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I thought the previous poster meant that he wanted to use plain paper tape but I used metal corners with paper attached. When I did the first outside corners, I used all metal corners and nailed them in place. They seem to want to wander away from a truly straight line so I switched to the paper covered metal corners and they worked great. They're replacing the water main, sewers, water shutoff valves and road in front of my duplex and the roller they used also vibrates. Not a little, it shakes the whole freakin' house. I didn't think they were ever going to finish and it seemed like they were camped out in front of my house. Not a single crack, anywhere, and I re-did every corner and wall/ceiling here. All of the old nasty cracks, bad corners that weren't close to straight, areas that should have been flat but weren't, bowed ceiling joists that should have been tossed instead of used and door jambs that were an inch high on one side and they never leveled the top were all straightened, flattened, trued, squared up and fixed. This place never looked this good when it was new and although it took quite a while to do, me being really picky helped it turn out better than I expected, considering the fact that I had never done anything this extensive. Oh, yeah, I removed most of a wall, took out the badly done arch in one of the doorways, moved the entry door back and removed the kitchen door and a closet at the 2nd floor landing. This means that I had to scab in a bunch of ceiling and walls build and install a beam with flitch plate, build up the faces of that and make sure they were the same thickness as the rest of the wall next to it. I'm convinced that the setting compound makes a huge difference in how durable it is and I've seen some places that showed cracks within six months when it wasn't used.If I ever build a new house, they're gonna hate me when I find defects. Maybe I should do a dome of some kind- it won't need to be flat, square, plumb or straight.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."