Hello,
Well, I’m getting close to finishing my house build and of course there are some issues. I hired a drywall contractor for all the drywall work in my house. I asked around and got the “best drywaller in town”, and apparently by far the best “taper” you can find. However, I’m starting to see some areas of concern, and it’s only been done for about 1.5 months!
Some background – it’s a 2,600 ft2, 2-storey. It is on a poured foundation, with engineered floor joists and a regular framed or cut roof. The drywall was boarded and taped, mudded and taped while electric construction heaters were in the house and I was assured there won’t be any problems.
Now that the paint is done in most areas, I’m starting to see the ceiling joists, and the middle of most of the walls it appears that it “buckles” a bit, now I’m starting to get cracking in some corners.
Here’s my question, is this the drywallers fault? I live right by Detroit, MI so it hasn’t been ideal weather conditions to build. We dug on 10-14-07, so it’s mostly been constructed during the winter.
I’m not sure if this is b/c the house is settling, the studs are “drying out”, or if the drywall guy screwed up somehow. Also, what is the best “fix” for the cracked corners? Caulking? Re-tape & mud? Other ideas?
My last concern is if it looks this bad now and it hasn’t even been 2 months since the dryall was complete, what is this going to look like 3 – 4 years from now?
Any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for your advice!
Replies
Was KD lumber used for the framing? Was the frame exposed to weather or open for more than a week? Did the ceilings get strapped or was the sheetrock attached directly to the joists? These three things will have a lot more to do with your problems than the taper. Once the heat goes on permanently, and there was moisture present in the framing, things dry out and shrink. It usually doesn't get a lot worse but.... framing corners that were not nailed sufficiently, twisting joists, truss lift can get worse. It has nothing to do with the drywallers, hangers or tapers.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
To a degree what you see is "normal" -- you'll almost always get a few cracks and such. But it sounds like you're getting more than a few, so you may have a problem with the quality of the rocking and/or taping.
As to what can be done, the cracks can be remudded, but may or may not reopen. It takes about a year for a house to dry out sufficiently that major motion stops.
I spent 3 decades in the Metro Detroit (Northern Burbs) area building and I have a few questions and comments.
First, a winter build can sometimes be problematic if the framers drag it out and icy conditions create voids in the framing that will ultimately settle with the full weight of the drywall, roof and contents. It isn't going to sink 6", so don't panic. Just be prepared to deal with minor settling issues (patch and paint a few times).
Your choice of lumber suppliers might have something to do with your situation. Do you know which lumber company supplied you? If your contractor was focused on bottom line pricing, you might have ended up with a company like National Lumber whos prices are great but care has to be taken when using their stock. Stock lumber is also a company that can give you both grades.
I'm going to guess that your GC or framers chose the cheapest grade of lumber for the ceiling joists and the drying out process is now wreaking a bit of havoc.
Most Detroit area contractors would install the furnace and add a pig or tie it into the gasline for heat. I'd be suspect about a few electric space heaters. I'm guessing that your house wasn't dried out yet and they boarded it.
Did they properly protect the basement pads with straw? I've seen settling issues on heaved pads.
Which burb you building in? The subsoils sometimes have something to do with it all. Also, how did they deal with the basement? Have they prepped it and poured it or is the house taking all the moisture from it?
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Was the house ever allowed to freeze after the board was put up?
well join the club of " i didn't hire the cheapest,but the best" exact same deal as i had. i only hired one thing done on my house when i built it and it was drywall. best company,almost the most money,but i figured if the rock looks like shet so's ever thing else.
60 days after finishing every tapered joint hairline cracked [no butt joints?] and every corner had cracked. they tried everything to find fault with something else,framing was wet [i built this myself so i moved slow,from framing to sheetrock was 10 months plus rock happened in august]the primer caused it,the foundation was bad etc..... finally they took responsibilities and fixed it. retaped all the joints but in the corners ran a very small bead of good caulk and smoothed it off. it painted up and looks good still so i wouldn't be afraid of caulk in the corners. larry
if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
Normal defects in this country. Causes are many and most have already been mentioned. Most tapers will come back in a year and do touch ups, at least here they do. Been in the reno industry for many years and it is pretty much the norm what you are experiencing. Some new homes are worse than others. Can depend on what time of year they were built and so on...many many factors.
Gary
If there is a problem it should be taken up with the contractor, who should know how the house is being built!
It's hard to tell without seeing how it was framed, what the framing design was, how the house has settled, how it was rocked, how it was taped, etc. How much weight is on the ceiling rock from insulation, what thickness of rock was used, how the walls were insulated, etc.
It's definitely not an exact science and no walls are perfect.
It could also be that your wall paint is just too glossy for an average wall or you will see all those things. What texture is on the walls? Even smooth walls need a slight roller texture or they look like ars.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Just to clarify - I used 1/2" drywall everything. The ceiling rafters were KD and framed @ 16" o.c. The "electric heaters" were large construction heaters, no small "space heaters", so the house was heating during boarding, taping and mudding.
I think the best solution is just to ask the drywaller to come back in one year from now to re-tape, mud and sand, and hopefully I won't have a problem after that.
Should I have to pay extra for this? How much would be reasonable? Thanks again!
Should have used 5/8" on the ceiling. Not manditory with 16" OC, but worthwhile.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
The spans of your ceiling joist could be contributing to the shadowing that you are seeing. The KD and 16" sound good but it's still possible that individual ceiling joists are moving up or down and showing themselves. One of the ways to alleviate substantial movements between adjoining members is to install a "strongback" on top of the ceiling joist. This is normally built with two framing members in a "t" fashion and spiked securely to the tops of the joists somewhere near the middle of the room. If you don't have these strongbacks, then I would suggest getting the framers to put them in. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Just to clarify - I used 1/2" drywall everything. The ceiling rafters were KD and framed @ 16" o.c.
1/2" rock will telegraph all sorts of things, especially on the ceiling with the weight of insulation above it, or on walls with poorly installed insulation that is putting outward presssure on the rock.
The straightness of the framing will also have a lot to do with the telegraphed studs or joists and is not usually something most drywaller's even attempt to correct since that's normally a framing task. A wall that weaves in and out 1/4" on every stud is a challenge to fix.
If you hired me to look at it I'd go around with a 6' level and measure how far out of whack the bends and bows are. If it's clear many of the issues are framing related then it's going to be hard to skim over and fix. If on the other hand it's bad tapering of the material over the seams, that's easy to work with.
Unfortunately, unless you specify a level of finish, (see http://www.harddrywall.com/PAGES/layers.html ) you'll get something suitable for use under a texture. Even if you wanted a smooth finish many times clients can't afford a level 5, which may be twice a level 4.
If I just bought a house in your condition I'd go around with a magic marker and circle anything that seems objectionable and check everything with a 6' level. Some areas will need to be filled, some may just need to be skimmed and others are just rotten. Then I'd hire a one-man band who does smoothwall tape & texture and have him work over the problem areas. We'd paint his work with a roller to show any obvious imperfections and apply the final finish in as dull a sheen as can be tollerated and always with a roller. Even better would be a light coat of block filler primer rolled onto the surface for a 20 coat of paint texture.
Our local paint supplier loves to get painters to use "low sheen" paint on ceilings, but it's terrible on smooth ceilings with harsh glancing light. Every time I go in they say the same thing, which probably works with a knock down texture, but not smooth.
What's fair to fix the problems? Personally, I wouldn't trust the guys who did the work since what they've done is a pretty good indication of what they always do, but that's the least cost 1st choice you should consider. Better would be to ask or spy on the better remodelers and ask them who they use for smooth finishes, even if you aren't shooting for smooth. Get a one-man show and expect to pay an hourly rate of $25-40 or so and it will simply take as long as the job takes depending on how much you want fixed. If he's worked with remodels he'll know how to quickly handle fixing and texturing your problem areas, without creating a huge mess. New construction crews just aren't house trained if you've already moved in.
If you really don't like the drywall contractor you can back bill him for the new work needed to bring the rock up to specs, but my guess is you'd be hard pressed to see any money even if you took it to small claims. The minimal level of quality, or threshold of crappp, is legally quite low unless an agreement to the contrary has been used.
What I really hate to see are drywall contractors who agree to above average work, then sub the work without describing the expectations, the client balks, the contractor lets the sub go without payment for poor quality work, brings in another finisher to fix the problem, client balks, sub #2 is let go without payment, etc. The unknowing subs in these situations are often treated poorly, litterally victomized, if the market is such that another crew is right around the corner ready to jump in.
The owner loses because it's so agrivating and time consuming, the subs definitely lose a great deal of well earned income, and the SR contractor makes out like a bandit. It happens so often with hispanic subs, even legal green card subs, that it's essentially legalized robbery.
Best of luck.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
"Just to clarify - I used 1/2" drywall everything. The ceiling rafters were KD and framed @ 16" o.c. The "electric heaters" were large construction heaters, no small "space heaters", so the house was heating during boarding, taping and mudding."
I have seen this all too many times. Heating the house during boarding taping and mudding is important... but no less important then continuing the heat at a constent level from there on. I have seen builders looking at a 4 day lull in the action reduce the heat in order to save energy dollars only to screw up perfect walls in a manor which you describe.
So I'll ask again... bearing in mind temporary heat is not consistant... some rooms might be 70 degrees while others are 50.... at any time after the board was hung was any part of the structure allowed below 32 degrees?
Tell me thermostats where never set below 65 degrees and we can proceed in what might be the cause.
The drywall was boarded and taped, mudded and taped while electric construction heaters were in the house....
But was the house heated PRIOR to the drywall installation?
Sounds to me as though you are experiencing typical issues of "settling".
A good contractor...not necessarily the drywall contractor....will come back in ten to twelve months and attention the imperfections you are seeing.
As you didn't notice the problems immediately after the taping was completed, I have a hard time imagining it could have been a poor rocking or taping job.
Now that your heat has been up and running regularly in the house, the framing is drying causing the cracks.
If I were to lay any blame on the drywaller, it would be for not insisting the structure was allowed to dry thoroughly before he did his install. Then again....he's not the GC, so it's really not his call.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Pp, Qq
The last person person I ever want to even pull into my driveway is my plaster sub. He had first class walls to work off of and they were dry. (I have the LP invoices to prove it) He was the best of the best but you could have fooled me. After he finished, without full payment I'll add, my carpenter hired another guy for his next job. He felt really bad about the guy but I was the one who hired him. He was after all the only plaster guy in the area.
His name is mud in Greenville now.
What do you mean by "LP invoices"?
Propane.
Totally normal. Even if you have a warranty company subbing out the warranty process, they would likely tell you when it comes to drywall, take note of everything in the first year, and we will get it fixed once.
If your house is as well built as you suspect, it will likely move more in its first year than it will in the next 20. We continually overlook the amount of just moisture involved in building a house. In the lumber. In the paint, the adhesives. As things dry, they shrink.
A typical two story home, just from the framing / wood movement standpoint, will shrink an inch and a half from foundation to peak going from the 19% mc the framing is delivered at and the 6-7% mc it stabilises at.
Real trucks dont have sparkplugs