I was wondering why drywall has gotten so much interrest on Breaktime when its posted . Seems the interrest is spread to nearly all. JLC has a section devoted to it entirely. This is what Ive always done but I never thought it was popular as most carps hate doing it . I really cant imagine home owners wanting to do it , but here they have shown me they are really interrested. Most of the love has always been for stairs and trim , cabinets, framing , flooring, etc. When I was growing up in the trades no one wanted to paint , hang drywall , or be a taper , so I did it . Thats really the only reason why I did except for the money as it was considerably better than a carps wages at the time . Its not as nice as the previously mentioned as its messy and dusty . Hard to keep clothes and truck clean working in it , so Im amazed at the responses to it .
Tim Mooney
Replies
Maybe everyone hates dealing with it so that they are always looking for an easier way.
Character? I never had any problem with character. Why, people've been telling me I was one every since I was a kid.
Maybe the topic is popular because it's so universal - Probably somehting like 99.9% of new construction and remodelling uses it? (Just guessing)
Other thing are more regional. Some siding/roofing types are more popular in one region than another.
Flies spread disease. Keep yours zipped.
There is something magical about taping dry wall.
anyone who hasn't done it that watches a pro do it gets the bug.
Hey that looks like fun.
I could do that.
And save a lot of money!
It looks easy.
And all I need is some big putty knifes and one of those bread pans.
Also any DIYer can take six weeks to tape a closet or a laundry room and get pretty good results SO.......
It wont be that much harder to do the whole house myself.
I can put it on real smooth so I don't have to sand between coats
I can use a sponge instead of sand paper to make less dust.
If I use flat paint it will make the walls flat.
That mesh tape is the way to go ..... One less coat!
I can put up moldings in the corners instead of taping them.
If you add dish soap to the spackle it smooths out really nice.
I can get one of those popcorn guns to do the ceilings so I dont have to do a real good job up there.
Hey maybe I could popcorn the walls!!??
Next I'm gonna sand and finish my own hardwood floors!!
Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am a trained professional!
ROFLMAO
Dude, that's great. And it's so accurate. Just watch the garbage being done on TLC and HGTV!!
I can't explain why there's so much interest in drywall. Seems like most think of it as an almost necessary evil to get done between the fun stuff (framing and finish work).
everyone is looking for/hoping for the secret.
*sigh*
man, now that was priceless. I needed that after today. Still laughing, and a little durabond in the beard at the moment!" We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried. Most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad Gita . . . "I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." - J. Robert Oppenheimer
I wont try to respond very much as I want everyones imput , but Mr T , that was priceless !
Ive finished behind carps also and its always a mixed bag of tricks . Id like to share a couple ;
One time [well more than one time ] I backed up to a job the carps hung because of lack of work. I came in and they were cleaning up for me . When I came in they went for their stanley thermos and followed me around while I was looking at the job . They were grinning ear to ear and poking one another . I could see that they were sure proud of thier work. .......
Every joint to wall was planned and tight. Really it looked like they were fitting panneling . There was no space between recepts and drywall . It was truly amazing ! Well their boss finally ran them out side to work on out side trim .
I broke out the bazooka and quickly covered their work . They were sad and realized it wasnt necesary . Whoopped PUPS!
On another one it took me all day to do the pre taping and deep fill the nail holes from Estwing framing hammers . I also had to screw off the whole house .
Those are two extremes and Ive had a carreer of things between . Surely not enough room here to tell all the funny stories.
Tim Mooney
I like finishing, but hate hanging. Something about putting 5/8" 16's over my head that makes my shoulders ache. We'll do the smaller additions and such, but never a whole house(okay, so we've done a few to keep on schedule, but I hated it)
probably because there's more and more DIY'ers around here.....
and diy'ing drywall LOOKS so simple.
Then they try it......and get confused when what looks to simple....ain't!
Then come the Q's.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
I think just about everyone has hit onsome point about drywall that makes it interesting here. i am a carp that actually likes to finish, and now that I've started using a panel lift, I don't mind hanging.
How many times have you said "don't worry about that.... I can fix it."
Drywall is a much more foregiving medium in most peoples mind. After all you can't cut trim, paneling, or siding a 1/4 inch short and say "don't worry, the tape and mud will hide that." A 1/4 inch is a lot closer than I have seen most diy cut, and even some of the hangers I've worked behind never got that close. I've also fixed a lot of diy finishing projects. Good money when you are fixing someone elses mess.
I once gave my brother in law a short two hour lesson in finishing, and then told him to check back with me in a year to see if he could actually do what I was teaching. six months later he said "you can have that stuff, I'll never say another word about finishers being overpaid."
I am sure you have heard that also.
Dave
Hey T miester,
You "rock"!
To the tune of Gonna take you higher by Sly and the Family Stone
Boom spac a laka laka
Boom spac a laka laka
Seems like I always sing that song at least once while I'm spackling....
Be well
Namaste
andyOne works on oneself, always. That's the greatest gift you can give to community because the more you extricate your mind from that which defines separateness, that defines community. The first thing is to become community. "Ram Dass"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Jeff , thats pretty close to it .
Tim Mooney
My 2 cents as a DIY'er.
I hate drywall. I will build anything; do plumbing, electrical, attic work, crawlspace, dig ditches, concrete work, roofing, tile, linoleum, anything but drywall. Not too keen on painting either.
The last few days I framed in a new closet. My FIL loves to mud.
I don't mind hanging drywall, except ceilings w/o a lift, but mudding sucks rocks.
Anyway, my FIL comes over to show my how it's done. I couldn't find anything shorter then an 8" knife, so he puts all of the first coat on. He's pretty good at it. All 6 of my smaller knives have disappeared, still ticks me off. Wish my memory worked so I knew where I put them.
The next day I plan to get up first thing and do the second coat. Just couldn't force myself to do it. Finally, my wife calls daddy and he shows her how to do it, she does ok, heck I do ok if I can force myself to do it.
So we reached an agreement, I'll build whatever we need in the house, she can tape it. I ain't ever doing it again. She does it, the FIL does it, or I pay someone to do it. But not me!!!
Still the threads interest me, always interested in learning better ways to hang drywall, patch holes, etc.. Just skim over the mudding and taping parts of the threads, just not my thing.
Working with drywall is sort of like mountain climbing - we do it because its there. I used to spend all kinds of effort making sure my framing would be compatible to the rock, only to come back and find my drywall subs completely ignore my advice and cobble away. Now I hang my own, and my tapers are much happier and make money for the company all the way around. So go find a house today that doesn't have the stuff in it.
TM,
That was well put. Also I think it's something most of us started doing before we read the instructions.
I have never "just" done drywall. It has always been something I have come back to on yet another remodeling job or house and I come to it with a renewed interest. My approach has gone through many stages. I bought the bazooka set up at one time, but it sat too much or was like killing a knat with a bazooka. I sold the whole set up to a full timer. I love to watch you guys speed through.
I don't want to hijack a thread, so tell me off if it's not approapriate to ask if you have any advice on how to apply your approach to: new kitchen, bath, small remodel.
One other question. What is your guess on the number of thousanths that can be seen on a slick finish job.
Fonzie
What do you mean by how many thousanths can be seen?????
Ok, I am serious about this question. The guy I work with (last 15) and I have talked about this several times.
Under bare bulb it is amazing how small of a variation can be seen. I'm guessing you can see scrapes, trowel marks, digs of 1 or 2 thousanths of an inch if the light is unflattering enough. True, you can see MORE on the plaster you are imitating, but people don't want it to look like taped drywall.
It depends on how many 1/64th" you imbed the drywall screw into the paper.Character? I never had any problem with character. Why, people've been telling me I was one every since I was a kid.
Reminds me of a bevel siding project we worked at for weeks we got so bored we started yelling out the measurements as 10' 10 and 500/1000's or 2' 6 and 72/96ths .."What?" .. the neighbours thought we were nuts... come to think of it they weren't far off. Guess you had to be there, got raining ran into a huge bee hive.. typical job.
Drywalling a 4000 sq ft home can be completed in a half hour show so I really don't see the big deal myself?View Image
Half an hour
Man you guys are slow!!
I'd have to pound a stake next to you to see if you were moving!
TDo not try this at home!
I am a trained professional!
Bear in mind I'm just guessingassuming here, but a proper prime and paint job should be able to cover at least 10 thou. Some of the newer self leveling, level 5 finish primers, maybe more, much more. Just guessing though.
Don
"I don't want to hijack a thread, so tell me off if it's not approapriate to ask if you have any advice on how to apply your approach to: new kitchen, bath, small remodel."
I become a hand finisher because the job is not big enough to warrant the set up and clean up of automatic tools. Some times I use a banjo if its a big enough room , but they are messy.
Tim Mooney
I find the drywall threads interesting because I keep hoping one will come along that will enlighten me and dispel my hate of it!!
Actually, I've gotten to where I can do some pretty decent repairs and minor hanging and mudding on small remodels, but, even then, if one of my favorite Drywallers is available, I'm glad to "let" him do it.
And when I'm framing, I take extra care to make sure the rockers have an optimum environment....plenty of blocking and backing, trued framing surfaces, nails all flush, a clean building... (Tim, you might offer some input about what constitutes a good situation to walk into).
My worst nightmare would be to have them come to the jobsite, take a look around and then bail...leaving me to do it!
Jules Quaver for President 2004
. (Tim, you might offer some input about what constitutes a good situation to walk into).
Ok.
I would like to start by saying that I've had all sorts of people to work for that provided a good environments . From home owners , tradesmen , supers, and contractors .
I only remember actually walking on one job where it was two foot centers and a cheap drywall in 1/2 inch was stocked on the job. Insulation was stapled to the joices and studs and it was hanging in my territory. There was no way to fix it on my part and I didn't want my name on it.
On all other jobs I have told the folks what I wanted and pretty much got what I asked for , thus I was able to please them . If I have to fix after I get there , its added in the price . This is the cell phone age and that makes it easier.
Some people have thought that I only needed a room or two to start in and its farthermost from the actual fact. I tape most homes in one day. Even if I don't I float the biggest I work on in one day. [6000 sg ft of floor area]
Carps usually know if their work is done or not and if not I will add nailers . My charges might be 25.00 for putting in a few nailers . The biggest problem has been with the mechanics which I check on the first morning there . [Tubs not set flush with the wall and not furred . Pipes that are beyond the wall plane , Electricians leaving wires dangling beyond boxes and hanging low from ceilings with out boxes ] The job has to be totally clean mostly because I walk with my head looking at the ceiling all day so to speak. Bad lumber gets hung over and finished , but its a problem for all concerned . I check all walls and ceilings for bad lumber and report it on my cell phone before I start. This relieves me of further responsibility in my mind.
Tim Mooney
Thanks. Life is always smoother when the trades make an effort to work together instead of laying landmines for each other.Jules Quaver for President 2004
"Some people have thought that I only needed a room or two to start in and its farthermost from the actual fact. I tape most homes in one day. Even if I don't I float the biggest I work on in one day. [6000 sg ft of floor area]"
Wow! That is hard to comprehend. By yourself? When you say float do you mean bed coat? I'd like to hear more and believe me I don't envy you.
Fonzie
Does anybody else get chapped lips bad when finishing drywall? The dust dries out my hands bad too.
I get the worst case of dry rash on my face when I spray texture over head . I treat my hands day and night . You are not in the boat alone. Its quite normal.
Tim Mooney
Does anybody else get chapped lips bad when finishing drywall? The dust dries out my hands bad too"......
Mark,
I'm getting less and less tolerant of dust. My doc says I'm maybe developing an alergy to it; thus, every year the dust starts irritating and it starts heading toward bronchitas (and I don't care how you spell it). What I have been able to do to steer away from it for some time now is something my dad tried to talk me in to for years and I wouldn't listen/// Vicks in the nose. I don't expect you guys to take it serious either.
Here's my theory, though: Vicks in the nose does for the lungs what chapstick does for the lips and lotion for the hands.
Fonzie
I hope you're wearing a mask too. My parents think Vicks is the best thing ever, they both put it in their noses. Dad even will heat the stuff till it melts and take a teaspoon for a bad cold. They're both old timers from kentucky, I guess Vicks is a popular remedy there. I tried it in my nose a couple times and cant take it. Feels like my nose is catching fire. Mom used to put it on my chest when I was a kid and it would drive me nuts with the burning and the smell would burn my eyes too. I guess it an acquired thing. A lot of things irritate my skin now, and I'm a diabetic which also causes dry skin and makes healing slow.
gypsum is like salt. it is a dessicant.
There is one hand working with me mixing mud and and tending. I should include that if the building has high ceilings , I dont get it done . However high ceilings are another charge which is higher considerably from the standard price. But yes I bed coat 12000 sg ft of drywall a day at 8 feet high. I run a texture pump to a float box and it goes at a walk . I use 100 feet of high pressure line and a thermostat 2 wire to the handle with a push switch. [this is how I make up for being old]
My speed at taping is 20-250s per 8 hours of tape which is a box.[8 ft ceilings] This is done with a hand wiping down behind me and me mixing mud . In California , this is an eight hour day in the union. This is no speed record here as there are plenty that can out do that speed. Ive heard of one man running a box of tape alone . Im too old.
If you have read my posts before I have mentioned time in some techniuqes that were mentioned. I also feel this way about butt hangers . Two men have to hang 120 shts a day to get a days pay. 4x12x1/2 or 5/8s. Its not rocket science to figgure ; 120 x 48 = 5760sgft x.10 = 576.00 divided by 2 =$ 288 a peice per day. A hanger earns every penny of that . So if he were to install butt hangers and meet rock in the middle of two studs with out a center point he would have to have considerably more money. The contractor never wants to spend it .
The speed on the floating is in the texture pump.
Tim Mooney
Tim,
Thanks, man. That was REALLY interesting. You must have one firm handshake. I've never seen mud pumped to the squeezebox. The one I had you refilled. I'm curious how many buckets of mud per day that is.
Fonzie
Funny you mention the amount of mud . It changes with the quality of framing and hanging . It also has to do with rock thickness over two foot centers .
1/2 inch reg drywall over 24 inch centers will take a lot of mud.
Tim Mooney
I want to echo what others are saying -
I read up everything I can get about finishing drywall because someday I'm hoping that I'll learn the magical trick of finishing it nicely, beautifully and simply without taking a week to get it right. It took me almost a week to get one stupid ceiling done after work, and it's fine if you don't shine a light on it. My son's bedroom still makes me sick when I do look at it, despite the flat paint. The pros took one day to do all my hallways and a bathroom, and it's pristine even when you hold a bulb next to it. The pros are worth every penny, but I'm trying to save a few, and I've got tons of small repairs on my 1888 plaster walls that don't justify a full redo.
Good thing I'm not allergic to the dust - yet.
I think its great that you are trying . I think everyone should at least try what they think they can handle . I bought an expensive tile saw a while back and I had never laid tile on my own. I used to help dad years ago and run his saw for him , but I DIDNT LAY . Ive had several friends and family get on to me about it . All was negative criticism as far as Im concerned. I laid the floor and I was happy with it , plus I learned alot. Any way I made one reply back to all of them Id like to share with you ;
No one ever knew anything before they tried.
Keep practiceing !
Tim Mooney
I use 100 feet of high pressure line and a thermostat 2 wire to the handle with a push switch. [this is how I make up for being old]"........
Tim,
Is this something you have invented on your own or a commercial thing? How big is the line? Do you just "push" to refill or keep a constant pressure on the floatbox? I'm not interested in getting one, just wanted to see it.
Fonzie
I got the idea from Goldblatt actually. When I bought my pump from them they had a bango hooked to one . Its just high pressure hose like airless hose but its 5/8. I drilled the back of the float box and inserted a high pressure fitting. The tractor supply store is where I got the stuff and they crimped the connections I needed . The box is being filled as long as I push the button just like on the texture gun. The texture pump was already set up to start and stop the texture gun. Only real problem with it is the mud has to be thinned [ pretty thin] thus causing an extra coat .
Tim Mooney
Tim,
What style pump is it? I mean is it like a power grease gun, or a paddle pump or what? You've probably seen the insides. Do you put detergent in your mud? If so, have you noticed any consequence from it?
It seems that the "cutting edge" application should call for a feature in FHB.
Fonzie
Its an electric patteren pump that sprays texture and block filler . Its an auger pump. They quit making the Goldblat model, but there are others .
http://www.spraytek.com The one I use is pretty much like the kodiac. That should answer your questions .
I have put detergent in mud before . I didnt notice anything bad , but I quit because I knew it wasnt good .
Tim Mooney
Edited 1/5/2003 11:14:36 PM ET by Tim Mooney
Thanks TM,
I thought you were the one that said something about marking high and low framing using a "plub bob on a unchalked box". If it was you would you elaborate? Were you just using the string mainly?
Fonzie
Just the string for that , yes. Just because its there and its braided nylon so it doesnt twist which is stronger than chalk box string.
Tim Mooney
I think subject matter here at Breaktime goes in cycles. I am not reading all 28 responces so here's mine.
One guy will post to a subject and that makes someone else say to himself, "Hey, I've got a similar problem that I can get answered" or the arguements spin off...
It's not too diff from sitcoms on tV and their spinoffs
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
"It's not too diff from sitcoms on tV and their spinoffs"
There is more of that in painting and drywall threads than any other except politics . I agree. Seems like to me we would have it with framing as to me its a lot more contraversal. But no, we have it with simple painting , even colors. I think its all about the difference in techniuqes that have been learned.
Tim Mooney