I recently read in JCL that the pros prefer paper drywall tape one the fiberglass mesh. I’m not a pro, but the fiberglass seemed like it would be a better product because it’s stronger than paper, but the JCL guys were unanimous in saying there was more cracking with the fiberglass. I’m starting repair of a tray ceiling in my bedroom; what’s the consensus here? I had seen a paper tape with two strips of steel that’s supposed to be good for beveled edges, such as on my ceiling. Any opinion on this? Last, what’s the best method to smooth/trowel the joints of a tray ceiling? It would seem that some kind of flexible squeegee would be good, but again, I’m not a pro…
Thanks.
Replies
I prefer paper tape, easier to work with, less prone to cracks. If you use fibreglas, first coat with regular Durabond, a timed dry (you have to mix) joint compound. They both work, it's what you're used to and like. You can sand down to the paper v. too much sanding and you get the gridwork of the fibreglass.
Here's something I tried on a haphazard hung splayed corner. Plastic flexible corner. Adhesive sprayed on drywall and corner but added staples for insurance. I think now the adhesive would be enough. Layed it straight with the use of a palm laser. Came out very nice. Used reg Durabond first coat. I think you'll have some trouble with the metal/paper tape. Seen alot of bubbles and lift unless properly set.
Best of luck.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
That is brilliant to use your laser, I have never seen that. Are you a taper by trade, full time?
Most drywallers I know wouldn't be bothered with a laser- they'd be on to the next room by the time laser's set up (!). By the same token most of 'em couldn't be bothered getting that close to perfection. Being a remodel carp. I'd be prone to fussy and do it like Calvin.
i hate drywalling so i leave it to the pros. but i have always been interested in why one uses one thing and another wont touch it.
heres what my crews say. mesh is faster and easier in small jobs. they use reg compound and get the job done fast. i have never seen mesh fail. i have seen lots of paper fail. on the big jobs they use paper it takes more time to mix up setting compound, bazookas ect... but paper is way cheaper.
cheersTmaxxx
Urban Workshop Ltd
Vancouver B.C.
I always use paper over mesh.
I specialized in home repairs for 17 years, and I found so many cracks that had mesh tape.
To each his own, I guess, but I won't use mesh. I've seen it fail way too many times.
An awful lot of people that use a product never see later on if it did well, or failed. Failure is one of the main reasons that I was called in to do repairs. I have seen many, many products fail miserably. I will say, however, that an awful lot of those failures were caused by improper installation rather than the product itself. People have a tendency sometimes to install a product in a place it was never intended for, or in a manner it was not made for. Not a whole lot of installers (DIY or Pro) that bother to fully read and understand the manufacturer's instructions on a product. They just go about installing it the way they always have - never knowing if it caused a problem later on or not (and sometimes not caring if it did).
Just my humble opinion...James DuHamel
He who dies with the most toys.... Still dies!
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul?" MARK 8:36
http://www.godsfreemusic.com
One caution with fiberglass tape. Don't use your metal taping knife to form the tape in the corners. Use a plastic one. The metal cuts the fiberglass very Ez.
Tmaxxx, the link to your Urban Workshops does not work.
i have a link here?Tmaxxx
Urban Workshop Ltd
Vancouver B.C.
My bad. Your company's name is underlined, which threw me off.
thanks for your interest. would you like it? and why?Tmaxxx
Urban Workshop Ltd
Vancouver B.C.
Ok ill hold it. Now when i nod my head, you hit it.
'cause I'm in BC too: Kootenays.
Curiosity about big city contractors.
While on the same topic --Many years back I recall there being a fibered DW mud that supposedly didn't need tape. Did anyone ever use it, and was it any good at all?
And further along that topic - what will be the next big labor and/or $ saver in interior finishing? My friend and I were speculating on this while slaughtering the mud job in my loft.
Some WAT (Wild A** Theories):
-Drywall sheets with tape "flanges" already attached
-Some goo on the edges that you heat up and re-spread in stead of tape
-lighter, thinner sheets with same fire rating and rigidity
-a surface that rolls out and into place. it would only curve in one direction (sort of like your finger or kerfed plywood) you'd roll it out and put the edge that was on the inside of ther curve against the wall.
any other ideas out there?
Many years back I recall there being a fibered DW mud that supposedly didn't need tape. Did anyone ever use it, and was it any good at all?
Stuff is called "Fiber Joint' and is the best compound anywhere. I did a 800 board house with it..no tape on the seams nor butts but used tape on the angles for the straight line. I patched gycrete with it..my guys still ask me for it. You have to buy 3 skids of it.
Best compound I ever used. I spoke to the manufacturer afew years ago..he sells tons of it to Australia and New Zealand! Don;pt get any on your clothes..you'll need 20 washings to get it out. I miss it!
Ken, in this case it made sense and damn'd if it didn't work. I use good finishers when large enough for them to be called in. They do straight and if I point out counter/base/whatever detail would like a flat wall, they'll do that well. But straight and flat are one thing, level and plumb on bastard applications are another.
I did like that plastic bead tho, have used it a couple other times. Works well.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
No sir, just a dumb carpenter who had to lay paneling over that wall and figured it'd be easier to tape it level and straight than try to scribe that ceiling line.
Corner beading soffit's b/4 installing upper cabs with overlay doors and no trim on the top. Now that was another good application that paid off in spades.
Some guys can do a hell of alot with a couple tools. Other guys need a bunch of tools to do a hell of alot.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
No sir, just a dumb carpenter who had to lay paneling over that wall and figured it'd be easier to tape it level and straight than try to scribe that ceiling line.
Now, This is simply genius and not a dumb carpenter.
It takes few minutes to THINK how to avoid problems and few more to do the job right from the start.
But it takes hours and days to fix what you don't think before. And the funny thing here is that some people continue not to think.
Calvin. I install drywall like I was installing ceramic tiles. Big ones.
The taping,painting, tiles, cabinets ,paneling etc....the whole job was simply EZier, faster and better.
Good job.
Edited 3/12/2005 11:23 pm ET by YCFriend
Thanks, everyone. My father always used to use a perforated paper tape, but the local big boxes only seem to carry the non-perforated tape (and the fiberglass mesh tape). There's a few local specialty paint and hardware stores I'll check for this, but can anyone provide a source for perforated paper tape? It seems like it would be much easier to work with than a solid tape.
The stuff I used came from HD. This was a couple of years ago -- I try to avoid drywall work when I can.
It seems like it would be much easier to work with than a solid tape.
I found it more difficult because on the angles the mud comes thru the little holes and you have to scrape the mud off before you apply the final coat to the angle.
______________________________
YCFriend,
I sent you a private e-mail.
Technology coupled with 30 some yrs of grunt work and a desire to make use of the whole arsenal.
thanks dino
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Paper is stronger.
With paper tape I can follow the crease with my knife, cant do that with mesh.
Mesh moves around too much when its embedded in mud, paper doesnt
I can sand down to the paper with no problem, cant do that with mesh. You'll have to recoat to cover the waffle pattern.
I had some cracks in veneer plaster where the rock lath under the plaster split apart. I chisled off the 1/8 or so of skim coat, about and inch and a half on both sides of the crack and put glass tape in the trough and durobonded it in, then finished with reg JC...Worked really well and no new cracking.
Always paper never fiberglass. Pull he fiberglass with your fingers on it's width ..what happens to it? It does not have any strength on it's width as the width strength is required on the seam....... thus no good.
My best guess is that paper tape expands and contracts with the moisture level.
I can attest that many of the joint failures that I have seen have been mesh tape.
When I started, I heard that mesh was worse and so I never tried it.
Paper tape has a longer learning curve to do it well, but once you get it, you wont mess with the self stick.
-zen
Its good on Wonderboard.
PS...Tried E mailing you but kept getting the mail back for some reason
Be well
a...The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
andy,
Whats crackalackin?
-zen
>>>andy,Whats crackalackin?-zen<<<zen
Sounds like a New Orleans song that Doctor John wrote.
saw him last night in a lil' club here.totally awesome as usual.
Be down on the Bayou
Walk on gilded splinters
a...The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
PS...Tried E mailing you but kept getting the mail back for some reason
Sorry I missed your note above and I just changed my personnal e-mail addy as the old one was on my profile. Try sending that note again.
We use paper tape. When tieing unusual surfaces together sometimes we will use fiberglass but not often and we bed whichever we are using with setting compound for strength.
However this last week we started gutting a house we are rehabing and the rock work in the front half of the house had a finish nice enough to be pro done. It also had a sprayed popcorn ceiling. When we started pulling the rock off we had a tough time getting the sheets to break and ended up often chopping through them half way up the wall to get them to break. Low and behold once we started pulling them off we found them joined with fiberglass tape. Strong, wouldn't hardly let go, didn't want to bend or break at the seam and no cracks.
We aren't changing how we do it but it sure must be an ok method after that experience. DanT
Zano.
It was a D-Mix day today.
It was a D-Mix day today.
Heck no! You said the first Saturday in April at 53 National Road. at 11:00AM..I had it written down on my computer screen! Some guy here even mentioned that it was going to be April Fools Day! I was home all day yesterday!
If I missed it, let me know wherever you are doing it and if I can stop by.
No Problemo.
You can stop any time. Just call before.
For me the mesh is faster. Also, for blending in repairs the mesh means less humping. If you use regular mud w/mesh it will be more prone to cracking. Read the directions on mesh pkg.- says to use setting-type compound.
For small jobs, and for non-pro tapers, the mesh is a little easier to handle because it's self-stick -- no bedding coat needed.
For me, getting the bedding right with paper tape is the hardest part. Too little mud and it doesn't stick, too much and you get a lump. Helps to pre-wet the tape, I've found. Rolling on the bedding coat is an interesting ideas I heard here recently -- may try that.
On my most recent job (some water damage repair in a closet) I used the self-stick perforated paper tape. It seems like a fair compromise between fiberglass and regular paper, and it worked well on that job.
You guys need to try "Strait-Flex" composite drywall tape.
This product is the greatest. I cost $14.00 a 100ft roll here in Lansing area. I use it on all my jobs. I also used it on my own home. I use
fibeglass mesh on the seams and butjoints, Strait Flex in all the inside
corners. I use Trim-tex plastic corner bead on the outside corners.
Strait Flex is great because perfect corners are so easy. Just mud it in
and you can apply the second coat right away, then just a very light skim coat. I have had guys work for me who have never mudded before
tape and finish a room look like a pro.
I find that when I am doing repair work in plaster, replacing big junks of plaster with DW, either over lath or studs, that the gap between the old plaster and new DW is too wide and irregular to be bridged with paper tape. In that case I use FG "tape" cut from a roll of self-adhesive FG. And I use Durabond, not all-purpose compound.
As a home remodeler I've done big and small jobs alike. With that said I can tell you I've tried the fiber mesh tape, which is very strong once bonded within the mud, as well as the mesh paper tape and the old tried and true solid paper tape. The only one I won't use anymore is the self sticking mesh paper. I use the fiber self sticking mesh on factory seams only, because they are buried in the seams and won't affect the knives when applying the other mud layers. I use solid paper tape on all other applications, especially corners, and always add a little extra water to the mud when taping. This keeps me from having to pre-wet the tape. But make sure you get mud under every square inch of the solid paper, because if you don't it will bubble out after drying.
I just tried the new inside corner beads that are pre-taped and LOVE them! No corner knife needed and I was able to get perfect corners, completely covered in two muddings. The thin, small metal corners under the tape kept my knife straight and flush on every corner and cut my time for inside corners in half. Well worth the $2.00 for each. They also have the same design in a flexible roll, where there's two metal strips in the center with tape already bonded to them. I could have used it on the 45 degree inside corners and wish I would have, after finding the inside corner beads to be so good. Got them at Home Depot and will use them on every job from now on.
Just my 1 cent after taxes,
Bill