Replies

1. 
   Clewless1 | Dec 09, 2009 08:05pm | #1

   EIFS usually uses a synthetic stucco product (e.g. Dryvitt). In my experience, it is best applied by factory trained contractors. Not that one couldn't do it, but if you screw it up, it's a big deal. Proper application is critical. I suppose standard stucco over insulation is also considered EFIS, but I'm not sure.

1. 
   BossHog | Dec 09, 2009 08:28pm | #2

   Is EIFS always applied over insulation board that's glued to plywood or OSB?

   Seems like that's the norm, from what I could tell.

1. 
   boiler7904 | Dec 10, 2009 12:06am | #3

   EIFS (Exterior Insulation & Finish System) is applied over insulation board.

   DEFS (Direct-Applied Exterior Finish System) is pretty much the same material but applied over the building sheathing instead of insulation board.

   Both systems require exacting attention to details to avoid major moisture problems down the road - look into the problems the state of North Carolina had a few years back. I think they outlawed it for residential construction.

   I haven't used EIFS in a couple of years but from what I remember, all of the manufacturers now want you to use a glass mat sheathing like GP Dens Glass Gold or equivalent as your substrate.

   Sto (www.stocorp.com) probably has the best detail guide in the industry to show nearly every possible condition you'll run into.

   http://www.stocorp.com/allweb.nsf/deteifs

1. 
   BossHog | Dec 10, 2009 06:55am | #4

   Thanks for the info guys.

   I'll be working outside today so I won't be able to do any more research. But I'll be back on it tomorrow.

1. 
   catfish | Dec 10, 2009 08:26am | #5

   That stuff is trash. Water infiltration issues everywhere I've seen it. IIRC, NC banned its use, at least along the coast.

2. 
   DaveRicheson | Dec 10, 2009 11:35am | #7

   Like anything else the devil is in the details. A poor true stucco job can get you the same results. The biggest problems with EIFS were poor installation and manufacturers that thought thier products were bullet proof, so they didn't need the same deails as stucco.

   The original Dryvit system was designed as a venneer application for block construction. It worked pretty well in that arena but the wheels started coming off the marketing wagon when they moved into the residential frame structures field.

3. 
   tek | Dec 10, 2009 09:04am | #6

   It's been a few years since I
   It's been a few years since I spec'd EFIS, but last time I did I used STO. Their roll on membrane works very well with plywood. Once the membrane is up, foam is adhered (with drainage plane) and the system goes from there. If you contact their sales rep, they can tell you where the nearest installers are.

2. 
   xxPaulCPxx | Dec 10, 2009 01:41pm | #8

   Looked into the for my BIL. The drainage details are key - they were what was missed in NC.

   I'm emailing you a couple info sheets I downloaded before, about 5MB of PDF.

3. 
   maverick | Dec 10, 2009 01:49pm | #9

   Boss

   big learning curve. do your homework. I got a letter from my liability ins co. that effectively said they would not cover any claims if I even looked at the stuff.

   there are lots of problems with it WHEN it is not installed correctly

   I built a pool house for a guy some years ago and we used Sto, same as drivit. the owner was a commercial electrician who was good friends with an EIFS finish guy. the guy could not do the job but he did come down and give me some pointers.

   first, think in terms of the drainage plain BEHIND the EIFS. thats the critical part. some brands offer a foam backer thats relieved with grooves on it and some offer a membrane system/or both. your sales rep will help you with that.

   after you get the foam up you mix up a dispargent (almost like thinset)in a pail with water, then trowel that on over a plastic flexable mesh. its like taping with mesh tape. let that dry and the next day if it isnt flat enough you can mix a little more and feather, once again like taping. now is the time to add features like an embossed band or window trim and any of the factory accutriments that are available.

   also leave a small gap at windows and door for caulk, just fold the mesh into the gap and mud it in. you can buy polyuerathane caulk thats color matched from the distributor

   when you get the whole shabang installed and mudded in and dry, then you trowel on the acrylic finish coat. think in terms of whole panels. once you start a panel you cannot stop until its finshed or the texture will not be uniform. thats why there are usually seams breaking up large expanses

   just like regular stucco the texture is determined by the size of the aggregate in the mix.

   I have used the system to parge a concrete foundation wall without the foam backer, worked out pretty well

1. 
   DaveRicheson | Dec 10, 2009 03:35pm | #11

   >>also leave a small gap at windows and door for caulk, just fold the mesh into the gap and mud it in.

   The details I have seen on Sto now call for completely wrapping the edges, all the way to the back of the foam, with the mesh. They have also added a weep screed feature to the bottom and raised the height above grade.

   After doing a job almost 30 years ago with Drivet I really like the systems, but that was done over a block building. Since then I have seen a ton of residential work go bad around here. In every case it was improper installation and not following the manufacturers details that caused the failures.

   Another note of caution is to check with the insurance carrier for coverage. Even with the coating on the exterior of a building, the foam still creates an increased fire hazard. A local restraunt had a fire start in some exterior landscape mulch and it quickly evolved to a structural fire because of the foam in the EIFS. The local media picked up on it and insurance agents are now quick to turn down writing policies for EIFS buildings.

4. 
   BarryE | Dec 10, 2009 01:52pm | #10

   Have you got any plaster guys around. Around here that's who seem to do most of the EIFs systems. They seem to pick up on it pretty fast

1. 
   BossHog | Dec 10, 2009 06:53pm | #12

   Thanks for all the thoughts guys - I really appreciate it.

   I spent 9 hours outside today in freezing temps and high winds, so right now I'm too tired to care. I'm gonna go make sure my recliner is functioning O.K., and will check back in tomorrow morning.

1. 
   Jeff_Clarke | Dec 10, 2009 08:55pm | #13

   What maverick said. Insurance Co. will say *run*.

5. 
   DanH | Dec 10, 2009 09:20pm | #14

   I've seen it done with the
   I've seen it done with the foam adhered to CMU. I forget whether they glued the foam on or used fasteners.

6. 
   DonCanDo | Dec 10, 2009 09:28pm | #15

   Ron, just wanted to make sure that you're aware of this place:

   http://forums.delphiforums.com/breaktimeclass/messages

   I've been more-or-less splitting my time between the 2 forums. I'm hoping this one improves, but in the meantime, there's a lot of familiar names over there.

1. 
   LiamD | Dec 17, 2009 04:47pm | #16

   Remember:
   Don't do it in the
   Remember:

   Don't do it in the cold.

   Expansion joints at floor levels.