ELEC – outlets in tile backsplash – how?
toolbear
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
ELEC – outlets in tile backsplash – how?
@@@ Looking for input from those who BTDT and got the T shirt.
I am off to Long Beach next week to work on the electrical on a cottage remodel. It was wired tube and knob back when (-1940??). They want the small applicance circuits set in the tile backsplash. Settin’ boxes, pullin’ wire. Done in tile, this is new to me. Done in open studs, not an issue.
OK, what is the best way to do this? Ticks of the trade?
What tools do I need to put holes in the stuff?
They have been recip sawing vertical slots in the plaster walls and wiring up over down, following the old runs.
The ToolBear
“You can’t save the Earth unless you are willing to make other people sacrifice.” Dogbert
Replies
Do you have an angle grinder ? if so go buy a diamond blade that fits it. they come in many sizes Mine takes a 4 in one it cost about 20 to 30 dollars mine cost 20.00
cut like using a circular saw sink it into the tile after measuring and marking it. You can also use a dremel tool with different bits but they dull quickly and you might use several. diamond blade works great.I have even used the same tool with blade to cut round edged cuts did one on floor around a toilet flange. it worked great. hope this helps. it worked for me. Oh and cut the edges in tile and buy large plate covers to cover over cuts if there not to big..
Carpentry and remodeling
Vic Vardamis
Bangor Me
Do you have an angle grinder ? if so go buy a diamond blade that fits @@@ Got a 4.5 and dry diamond blade. Should have thought of that, but by Friday afternoon my brain is on break. Even have the correct guard. Can give it a try.Also have the Rotozip unit and have been using the router base on it. Got a tile bit as I have been cutting light opening in hardie plank.@@@ Oh and cut the edges in tile and buy large plate covers to cover over cuts if there not to big..Good point. Will tell the HO to buy the remodel cover plates for this job. About 3/8 oversized. Thanks... TBThe ToolBear
"You can't save the Earth unless you are willing to make other people sacrifice." Dogbert
4.5" grinder with diamond blade works well - dusty, noisy, best done outside.
Requires a bit of finesse to get the corners - will involve cutting from both sides of the tile and breaking out the last bit in the corner. Double boxes are easier than single boxes - more space to work.
I usually clamp the tile onto a piece of plywood for cutting - easier to hit a non-moving target. Irwin Quickgrip clamp - plastic jaw pad in place.
RotoZip with the carbide tile cutting burr works well with some softer "wall-use-only" tiles. Experiment. My experience shows that many tiles are too hard for the tile burr to be useful - diamond blade / grinder combo always works.
Make a cover plate screw relief for any box which will house a GFCI device - their cover plate screws are above / below the device mounting screws - without a relief, the cover plate screw will run into the tile and bend the tab on the GFCI while pushing the cover plate out from the wall.
I have always used the "box extender" sleeve do-dads to cover the tile edge - plastic for plastic box, metal for metal box.
You may also need to pick up some longer screws (6-32?) for the outlets and switches - depends on how deep the original box is mounted.
Generally speaking the smaller tiles (4x4) are easier to work around the boxes since the boxes usually cross a tile joint, making the cutout hole open on at least one side.
Larger tiles have the potential to produce box cut outs which are contained all in one tile - little trickier but very doable.
Das 'bout all I know on this topic.
Enjoy,
Jim
4.5" grinder with diamond blade works well - dusty, noisy, best done outside.Requires a bit of finesse to get the corners - will involve cutting from both sides of the tile and breaking out the last bit in the corner. Double boxes are easier than single boxes - more space to work.I usually clamp the tile onto a piece of plywood for cutting - easier to hit a non-moving target. Irwin Quickgrip clamp - plastic jaw pad in place.RotoZip with the carbide tile cutting burr works well with some softer "wall-use-only" tiles. Experiment. My experience shows that many tiles are too hard for the tile burr to be useful - diamond blade / grinder combo always works.@@@ These tile may be older than me, so I suspect they are better quality than today's New, Improved stuff.Make a cover plate screw relief for any box which will house a GFCI device - their cover plate screws are above / below the device mounting screws - without a relief, the cover plate screw will run into the tile and bend the tab on the GFCI while pushing the cover plate out from the wall.@@@ Did not think of that. One GFCI per circuit. Think I will charge the rzip diamond bit to the company.I have always used the "box extender" sleeve do-dads to cover the tile edge - plastic for plastic box, metal for metal box.@@@ See if the Depot has my size.You may also need to pick up some longer screws (6-32?) for the outlets and switches - depends on how deep the original box is mounted.@@@ I carry an assortment in white and almond from itty bitty to looong. The ToolBear
"You can't save the Earth unless you are willing to make other people sacrifice." Dogbert
They want you to put in old work boxes after the tile is set??? Sucks.
Rotozip tile bit, or the Multimaster abrasive cutter, I guess. A saber saw with an abrasive blade might work in some cases. You'll want some masonry bits to create pilot holes, of course. A lot depends on how hard the tile is and how it's set -- you can't generalize from one job to the next on something like this.
If this is old tile there's no telling what was used behind it -- could be wood lath, could be rock lath, could be diamond lath, could be something else.
that's surgery - and should be charged at surgeon's rates!View Image "...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
If this is old tile there's no telling what was used behind it -- could be wood lath, could be rock lath, could be diamond lath, could be something else.@@@Old, old tile. The house was wired knob and tube. Walls are plaster over button board.The ToolBear
"You can't save the Earth unless you are willing to make other people sacrifice." Dogbert
I would think it would be mudset. What if one breaks? How would you ever match? Sounds like a potential problem job.I wish you well, John
I would think it would be mudset. What if one breaks? How would you ever match? Sounds like a potential problem job.@@@ More than likely. My tiled sinks from 1962 are in a mud bed over black paper. Saw that when I got to saw out the sinks to replace with top rimming models. White subway tile - but I always find that old stuff has different dimensions - such as stucco mold. Didn't pull a tape, but the studs looked like actual 2"x, not 1.5"x.When did a 2x4 become a "2x4"? When 15# felt became #15 felt?This is a little bungalow and if they want to sell it in this market, given the many modern options at nice prices, it will either be dirt cheap or need a canny tart-up. Razing the kitchen to the wall and doing new might be a good move. The living room with hardwood floors has some charm. The fireplace trim is elegant. I better speak to them about covering the hardwood with ply, paper or something against the dirt and damage. The ToolBear
"You can't save the Earth unless you are willing to make other people sacrifice." Dogbert
This is a job for MultiMaster!
If dust is not a problem, the diamond blade will get most of the cuts fast, then you can use my MM with diamond and/or carbide blade to clean up the corners. If dust control is a problem, and the tile is ceramic (not porcelain) the MM can do the entire cut, albeit slowly.
1" of floated mortar, 1/4" tile plus 1/8" thinset, you're already beyond the reach of most old work boxes. I did mount some successfully on 1 1/4" thick stucco by getting longer screws for the little back tabs, but it is tricky to tighten them up. You have to rotate 1/4 turn then pull outward to keep the tab from rotating flush with the box again.
This is a job for MultiMaster!@@@ I am a poor bear, but did get the Dremel clone (those HD gift certificates), which I consider rather DIY. Finding a diamond blade will be fun - unless that grout blade will work.If dust is not a problem@@@ Given the condition of the place, a little dust will not be noticed. No Persian carpets to avoid (and, BTW, Dan put his foot in a gallon of paint while finishing up a window/door install on a brick patio. Glad I was doing trim in CM and have witnesses.), the diamond blade will get most of the cuts fast, then you can use my MM with diamond and/or carbide blade to clean up the corners. @@@ I wonder if my carbide grit jigsaw blade will do the deed.1" of floated mortar, 1/4" tile plus 1/8" thinset, you're already beyond the reach of most old work boxes. I did mount some successfully on 1 1/4" thick stucco by getting longer screws for the little back tabs, but it is tricky to tighten them up. You have to rotate 1/4 turn then pull outward to keep the tab from rotating flush with the box again.@@@ I better take the screw assortment. Put a screw into the back to use as a handle while pulling?I can suggest that given the age and dated look, they demo the splash, chop holes with glee, wire, wire, wire, then retile in a more modern motif. The ToolBear
"You can't save the Earth unless you are willing to make other people sacrifice." Dogbert
Don't know the exact situation you're faced with, but I've done 3 kitchens now where we mounted all the plugs underneath the upper cabinets to avoid having to work around them when we did the backsplashes. Seems like a situation with an existing backsplash would be an even better candidate for this. We've used plug strips and individual boxes with success, depending on how much trim was on the bottom of the cabinets. On the plug strips we had to use a GFCI breaker or start the circuit on a GFCI plug on another wall.
Jamie
Seems like a situation with an existing backsplash would be an even better candidate for this.@@@ Idea. I will raise the option with the HO. Tnx.The ToolBear
"You can't save the Earth unless you are willing to make other people sacrifice." Dogbert