Is there a code legal method for making a wire splice in Romex that will then be buried under new drywall and cabinets when completed?
I’m a diy’er in the process of remodeling my 55 year old kitchen, which will go onto it’s own grounded, GFCI circuit(s) during the remodel.
The problem is that the power to the existing living & dining room wall receptacles passes through two of the old, soon to be gone, kitchen receptacles. I’d like to avoid new drops to the LR & DR at this point.
It makes sense to me that you can’t bury a junction box, but is there a code legal method for making a wire splice where the old box was that will then be buried under new drywall and cabinets when completed?
Replies
There is a class of connector that some have suggested could be interpreted as "buriable", depending on how you read the code book. But the most common interpretation is that it can only be buried in limited circumstances, in modular structures.
So the general answer is "no".
If it's a base cabinet I would make the splice, cover with solid cover and cut out the back of the cabinet at that location making it accessable and code compliant. If the box is in the back splash either raise it into the top cabinet or lower into the base and proceed as above. I don't think there's any code to allow burying spliced wires.
good luck
Orbs
got to be in a junction box
No. And the purpose of a box, aside from accessibility, is to contain a potential fire from arcing connections. Don't skip it.
Jeff
Not sure about code, but I've seen electricians solder wires splices together that later go buried.
"Is there a code legal method for making a wire splice in Romex that will then be buried under new drywall and cabinets when completed?"
Mike,
As have been said by others, NO. But if you have to....put the connection in a full metal box that is accessible, and labeled. How you do tyhat is up to you, though not to code.
WSJ
Well, if it's accessible, it's code.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
>>....put the connection in a full metal box that is accessible, and labeled.<<
This would not be a buried splice -- this would be a legal splice.
Legal = splice contained in a box + accessible
Buried, illegal, non-code compliant = either, not accessible, or, not in a box. AKA "flying splice".
>>How you do tyhat is up to you, though not to code.<<
Sure it is.
Or, are you suggesting that the splice be made up inside of a "full metal box" and then the entire box buried in the wall? That would not be NEC compliant because it is not accessible.
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
If you're doing drywall patch anyway, is there another reason not to run a new continuous line through the attic or under the floor to the living room?
Mike,
I don't know where you are, but the NEC won't allow you to splice wires outside of a box, with just a few exceptions that don't apply to romex in your kitchen walls. And the box(es) must remain accessible. And this is the way you will want to do it.
It sounds like you have 2 old boxes in the electrical path to your LR and DR receptacles. Bummer. If you're supplying 2 new small appliance circuits in the kitchen, then the LR receptacles can't be on either of those, you need to get a new supply drop into one of those 2 old boxes anyway - so you can perhaps remove one box and supply the other with a new drop. If your kitchen wall(s) are open, you can move that splice box to the limit of the cable leaving the box to the next downstream LR or DR box so that the new location of your splice box is behind a cabinet (with an opening for accessibility) but otherwise hidden. Maybe that splice box can be pulled up into the attic or down into the basement or crawl space. Or maybe the new drop can go directly to the downstream LR or DR receptacle.
Consider that the current code requires that Dining Room, pantry, and breakfast nook receptacles need to be on the small appliance kitchen circuit(s). Maybe you want to provide a new drop to the LR and add the DR receptacles to your new kitchen circuit. This might change the need for the old splice box.
Good luck.
Jim x 3
Edited 9/7/2009 1:46 am ET by jimjimjim
>>then the LR receptacles can't be on either of those (kitchen small appliance circuits), you need to get a new supply drop into one of those 2 old boxes anyway....<<
Agreed.
>>Consider that the current code requires that Dining Room, pantry, and breakfast nook receptacles need to be on the small appliance kitchen circuit(s). <<
You sure about that? My locale has not adopted 2008 NEC so I may be behind. Here those "may be" on the kitchen small appliance circuits, but not "shall be" on the kitchen small appliance circuits. There is a difference.
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
OK, buried splices are out, out, out.The kitchen walls are presently open, and based on your suggestions, I now see that the common dining room wall would look just fine with another wall receptacle/splice box. I can place it so that the legacy wiring currently feeding one of the excised kitchen receptacles will reach a new dining room receptacle/splice box just fine. Now my problem may be, does the separation of the legacy DR and LR from the kitchen cause me another code problem. Time to go talk to the inspector.Thanks very much for all your input.Mike
what if you buried a splice in a box but knew where it was. Like under the insulation but at a known and marked spot, like in the attic.
It has to remain Accessible.From the 2005 NEC"Accessible (as applied to wiring methods). Capable of being removed or exposed without damaging the building structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the structure or finish of the building."From the handbook comments
"Wiring methods located behind removable panels designed to allow access are not considered permanently enclosed and are considered exposed as applied to wiring methods."Basically any thing that you can get to using nothing more than you hands and a screwdriver and can be turned to the some condition that it was in using only screwdriver and hands.So burried in attic insulation is accessible. But some people will complain that it is "hidden" and people would not know that there was a hidden junction box. I have hard of people marking them with the little survey flags..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
If it's under insulation that can be moved aside without "deconstructing" anything then I think it counts as "accessible". Under faced insulation this would just require making an X cut in the face over the box.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
You can do the splice in the one of the "regular" boxes that also has the new circuit in it.While it is desirable to upgrade the dinning room receptacles it is not necesssary if you are not otherwise remodeling that room.And functionally it is not needed unless you do or would like to operate a MW, toaters, or other similar heating appliance in the DR.But if you do extend the new circuits into the DR then the LR needs to be isolated from that by code. But if you want to extend a separate (from the kitchen) circuit to the DR and leave the LR on it and match the circuit size to the current one (assumign that it is properly rated) you will need to check with the inspector, but I suspect that many would allow it as it is an improvement over the existing.Just make sure that any box that you use for splicing the old circuit, but having the new circuit in it is big enough. And allow an little extra over code if it has a GFCI in it. If need to can use a large box and get a reducing single gang mud ring. I don't remember if they fix a 2 gang box or a 4sq box or maybe avaiable for either. I know that Lowes has them in the Carlon plastic..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Hi Bill,<<While it is desirable to upgrade the dinning room receptacles it is not necesssary if you are not otherwise remodeling that room>>I would certainly upgrade those receptacles if they were reasonably assessable. Regrettably, they are guarded from the room below by inch thick plaster, and from above the exterior wall headers in the attic are inaccessible due to a 50's style low sloped hipped roof. You can SEE the tops of the headers, you just can't reach them. So, any rewiring of those receptacles would require busting an access hole in the wall plaster at each receptacle location, and a long snake-drill bit. Certainly doable, but SWMBO is not that taken by my plastering skills. I get big box for the splice box and, since the wall is open, big box for the first receptacle in the string to accommodate a GFCI.Now that we've demo'd the plastered-in drop soffits on two walls, I can see that the electricians tossed the power feed to the appliance receptacles into the soffit cavity and from there down the open wall cavity. With those soffits gone, I will need to route the power feeds through the headers before starting to drywall. Rerouting through holes drilled through the header will effectively shorten the feed by about 8 inches, no longer reaching the DR receptacle box. I think that the best thing to do is to put a second splice box for that circuit on the rafter beside the new hole (accessible from the attic), drop new NM to the first DR receptacle in the open kitchen wall (large box, change to GFCI), new NM from there to the splice box at the corner of the common kitchen/DR wall and splice the power feed into the old DR circuit wiring at that point. And, since I probably don't want the 3-way light switch by the DR door moved 8 inches higher up the wall, I plan on another rafter mounted splice box for that circuit as well.
Mike
">>Consider that the current code requires that Dining Room, pantry, and breakfast nook receptacles need to be on the small appliance kitchen circuit(s). << You sure about that? My locale has not adopted 2008 NEC so I may be behind. Here those "may be" on the kitchen small appliance circuits, but not "shall be" on the kitchen small appliance circuits. There is a difference."This is a long standing requirement. And it is both Shall and May.The DR shall be on a SMALL APPLICANCE circuit. It maybe on the 2 REQUIRED small appliance circuit.A small applince circuit is one that only service receptacles and only those receptacles specified in the DR, LR, & kitchen and is rated at 20 amps. You have to have MINIMUM of 2, but can have as many as you want.Also all of those specified receptacles must be on small appliance circuits..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
2008 did not change that(B) Small Appliances.
(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment.Exception No. 1: In addition to the required receptacles specified by 210.52, switched receptacles supplied from a general-purpose branch circuit as defined in 210.70(A)(1), Exception No. 1, shall be permitted.Exception No. 2: The receptacle outlet for refrigeration equipment shall be permitted to be supplied from an individual branch circuit rated 15 amperes or greater.(2) No Other Outlets. The two or more small-appliance branch circuits specified in 210.52(B)(1) shall have no other outlets.Exception No. 1: A receptacle installed solely for the electrical supply to and support of an electric clock in any of the rooms specified in 210.52(B)(1).Exception No. 2: Receptacles installed to provide power for supplemental equipment and lighting on gas-fired ranges, ovens, or counter-mounted cooking units.
>>
The DR shall be on a SMALL APPLICANCE circuit.
It may be on the 2 REQUIRED small appliance circuit.<<
That's what I thought, just was not sure if that had changed in 2008.
Thanks,
Jim
PS: last kitchen remodel we did; this couple throws huge parties -- hot plates abound. Kitchen has 3 small appliance circuits; breakfast nook has 1 more; dining room has 2. All major appliances have their own circuit, fridge, microwave, etc.
Yes, we put in a 20 space, 100 amp sub-panel to facilitate all the new additions. Two parties down -- nary a breaker has blown.
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Edited 9/7/2009 4:51 pm ET by JTC1
JTC,
Bill was correct in clarifying my text. The DR could be on its own small appliance ckt not shared with the kitchen.
And Fret did a good job of supplying the exceptions (like the switched receptacle for lights in the DR).
And as somebody mentioned, the existing DR ckt(s) should be grandfathered if it is not messed with now.
Regards,
Jim x 3