When installing a standard electrical outlet in a residential application does the safety ground go in the up or down position?
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Don't know if the NEC requires it but I had the "slim chance" happen once when my metal carpenter square fell off the pegboard and crossed the contacts on a plug that was in an outlet. All the ones I've installed are ground on top.
Steve.
Around here the duplex is always installed with the ground down. However the correct way is with the ground up for two reasons that I know of.
1) When installed with the ground down the plastic under the ground prong often breaks weakening the connection. Installing the duplex with the ground up helps secure the plug in the outlet better.
2) If anything slim was to fall in between a half out plug and the outlet it could short circuit across the two prongs. Having the ground up would help prevent that as things don't often fall up
That's why I've installed them ground up in my place.
In case it comes up in your place, if a duplex is installed horizontally (in baseboard, backsplashes etc) the neutral prong (larger prong) goes up for a similar reason as #2
The NEC does not specify the orientation.
Take your pick.
Most applications the ground will be in the down positions. I insist on this in all of my projects. Sometimes the refrigerator will be with the ground in the up position. Best Regards, Dale Buchanan
You'll get both opinions. I insisted on ground up in my house, against my electrician's "standard practice". He objected but couldn't tell me why.
Depends on your sexual orientation and/or your religion. Bis put em sideways.
Funny you should ask! A new homeowner just asked us to flip all the outlets to ground on the bottom in a 6000 +sf house. Seems they can't plug in those big transformers and chargers without them tipping out of the outlets. I tend to agree with the ground on the bottom-that is with the company name up! I don't think the electrons care either way...........
The usual recommendation is to install the ground up to prevent something metallic from sliding down and making contact with the power prong, but I find that the ground prong breaks off my plugs when I put outlets in this way. As a result, I always install the ground down in my own houses.
George
"When installing a standard electrical outlet in a residential application does the safety ground go in the up or down position?"
ABSOLUTLEY YES.
That is unless you install the receptacel sideways.
Or for the terminally counfused you can install one of these.
http://www.360electrical.com/
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Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
"Absolutely yes".....up or down?
"Absolutely yes".....up or down?
Precisely.
""Absolutely yes".....up or down?Precisely."Without question!
I know there are some that install it up. However, I'd LOVE to see an illustration from anywhere that actually shows the ground on top. Every picture, every drawn illustration I've ever seen of a US style plug has the ground on the bottom.
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Thanks for the responses.
Heck I'm voting for down, in hopes it might cause some trouble!
When installed the "traditional" way, ground port down, the wide slot is always on the left which makes it easy for "traditionalists" like me, to plug in polarized plugs without looking. "Wide prong (polarized) on the left, then plug it in".
Don't quite understand the concern about transformers not plugging in if the ground plug is at the bottom. If MY transformers won't go in the outlet that way, I ROTATE the TRANSFORMER 180*!!!!! Lot's easier and cheaper than calling a (properly) licensed electrician to ROTATE THE OUTLET ? ? ?
Edited 12/14/2006 5:36 pm ET by rwjiudice
Problem is that a big, heavy transformer will tend to fall away from the wall then, and be more easily dislodged.
People never lie so much as before an election, during a war, or after a hunt. --Otto von Bismarck
I'd LOVE to see an illustration from anywhere that actually shows the ground on top.
How about the official ANSI (NEMA) standard that defines the plug's dimensions (WD-6): http://www.nema.org/stds/wd6.cfm#download.
This question is a good way to generate long-winded threads on electricians' forum; there's no NEC requirement and lots of opinions. The best answer I've seen is to: (a) install with the ground down, since many plug-in transformers and "wall-hugging" plugs are designed to only work that way, (b) except if the wall plate is metallic, since in this case having the ground on top may prevent a short should the wall plate work loose.
I am going ground up in my new home, but I did notice that puts the "pryoff gap" for the screwless covers on top. . . .
Oh well. . . .
Adventures in Home Building
An online journal covering the preparation and construction of our new home.
Neighbor of mine had TV rabbit ears fall off entertainment center and cross contacts on a plug. Now all mine go with ground up.
Bear
In the USA the ground is to the bottom, this is, since the Boston tea party, because the Brits have the ground towards the top!!
Now lets see: I have never been in a home where I have ever seen a metal object that might slide down the wall and short out the circuit. Maybe in a sword fight or something but never in the homes I've built. I can't imagine a home that might look like a work shop with a framing square hanging on the wall.. For all cosmetics I will never let an electrician put the ground on the top, if he insist I would give him his walking papers. Some people just don't have any class. Best Regards, Dale Buchanan
The other thing in Britain is all the plugs have their own replaceable fuse built in. This I miss.
I have never missed fuses. And I doubt that I ever will.
Ozlander
More than once I've seen a metal object slide between the plug and the receptacle and contact the hot and neutral blades of the plug. And not a sword, either--metal cover plates in a cannery, and the most frightening--a sewing needle or bobby pin.
This last one was in a bedroom shared by two sisters about 3 and 5 years old. I got a service call "no power". Started at the panel and saw a tripped 15 amp breaker. Went to the bedroom, saw one receptacle with a small TV plugged in. Small streaks of soot running up the outlet cover plate and wall. The TV was far wenough away from the outlet that the cord was taught and the plug blades were exposed about a quarter inch.
Something had dropped across the two blades of the plug--I didn't find anything, but I'm thinking a sewing needle--and I assume it had chattered as it arced, cutting about halfway down the blades. It took a while to trip the breaker, from the looks of the soot trails. Could've been a real tragedy.
Cliff
When I was a kid, playing alone in my room with action figures, I had a metal chain I wanted to rig up as a some sort of bridge or something. What to attach the end to...lessee, how about we get creative and pull this plug out a bit and slip the end of the chain over the metal plug pieces...ZAP!
No ground prongs, luckily no injury but I remember the jolt 25 years later. A ground prong on the top would have been a nice safety feature.
Don't worry, there's plenty of other ways I almost killed myself as a kid. Never pee on an electric fence. Or give a 10yo a chain saw.
If some company tried to bring the standard plug and socket today as a new product, it wouldn't get out of the starting gate. The safety folks would have a conniption, and the liability attorneys would have a stroke.
People never lie so much as before an election, during a war, or after a hunt. --Otto von Bismarck
I used to like taking apart things, like tape recorders, radios, etc. I'd buy junk at garage sales to to tear down.
Once I had the bright idea (I was about 8) of seeing how bright one of those little subminiature wheat size light bulbs. Using a set of pliers (hey, I was no dummy), I stuck the wires attached to the bulb into the outlet. Very short light, very loud pop. Hardest thing was keeping a straight face and pretending I didn't know what my Dad heard in the living room.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
HAR! So, you're a testimonial to the survival of the fittest, are you?
For me, it was home-brew fireworks...lots of fun, and, miraculously, I still have all my fingers and other parts.
Cliff
HAR! So, you're a testimonial to the survival of the fittest, are you?
More like survival of the luckiest. My brother and often marvel that we made it out of childhood alive.
When I was about 3 or 4 I stuck a bobbypin into a receptacle.It got hot and minor burn of my hand.My mother made me promise that I would not do that again. And I didn't.A few days she heard me crying and making a strange sound. I had my hand over my mouth. She though was choking on something. So she grabbed my hand to pull it way. That made things worse.Turns out that I had put a bobbypin in a receptacle and burned my hand again. I had my hand over my mouth to try to keep quiet.But I was honest to my word. I did not put in the same receptacle that I had the first time. I wanted to see if that other one worked the sameway. My mother went around to each receptacle telling me that they would do the samething.
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Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Bill,You missed your calling---defense attorney! Answer the question, as narrowly construed as possible! Did your Mom go gray prematurely?Did you ever see the Seinfeld where he has a neighbor who's clock radio is blaring all day and Kramer says, "Well that's easy to deal with, just take a paper clip and put it in the hallway outlet--that'll shut down the power in the apartment!" It goes downhill from there...Some of the Seinfeld episodes were really classics, right up there on the yuk-index with the Marx Brothers, the Stooges, or Abbot and Costello. Oh wait, this isn't the "You know you're old if..." thread!Cliff
In college we had a roommate that had a radio that he always ran at full volume. The other three in the appt hated it. So one day mysteriously, while he was out, something got shorted in the radio.
People never lie so much as before an election, during a war, or after a hunt. --Otto von Bismarck
When I was 6 or 7 I had one of those race car tracks. The kind with the metal strip down the center of the black plastic lane. I pulled it out of the closet and spent an hour or so putting it together only to find the transformer was missing. There are two small wires connected to the metal track that normally connect to the transformer. In my young wisdom I decided to push those wires directly into the wall socket. Paboom! black stuff on the wall and little black spots on the hard wood floor at each spot the track was joined together!
So did this TV have a 3-prong plug? Because otherwise, it doesn't matter whether the receptacal is ground up or ground down. On a two-pronged plug, any metal sliding down the face will contact the hot and neutral.It's only if there is BOTH a 3 pronged plug and the ground is up that it could make a difference.
Bryan,Very good point. But I didn't say that ground pin up would have made a difference in that case. You're correct, the plug was a non-grounding type.My point was, metal objects can fall down and can land across the plug blades. Some foreign receptacles and plugs are configured so that the plug body fits into a half cm or so recess in the receptacle face, preventing the thing we're talking about. Speaking of foreign style plugs and receptacles, the British idea of fused receptacles isn't a bad one either. I can imagine that the ring style branch circuit makes troubleshooting a bit more complicated, though!Cliff
I really like the concept of the British system. Basically makes each receptacle a minny sub-panel.For those that don't know what it is the feeders for receptacles are 30 amps @ 230 volts. And it is feed in a loop with both end at the CB panel (or whatever they use). I don't know all of the detail, but I am guess that way they can run a wire equivalent to #14.Then each plug contains fuses that are more match to the size of the load and cord.It is equivalent to 3 20 amp circuits. 3-4 of those will take care off all of the kitchen, bathroom, living room, bedroom receptacles in a typical house. Do you know what they do for lighting. Do they use smaller circuits for lights or do the light fixtures ahve fuses?.
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Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
This reminds me of a (maybe) related topic: you'll notice on those big honking UK 3-prong plugs, the two hot pins have some insulation on them near the housing. 'was talking to a Brit engineer once who said that they did not start out that way. Then kids quickly discovered that one UK coin fit perfectly in the space between the three prongs, touching all three of them. Plug this into the wall, and watch the sparks fly. Thus the insulation was added.
You are close but the "ring main" is a loop to the first socket and visits each socket and back to a 30a circuit breaker. size used is 2.5 sq. mm (nearer to #12) All lighting is on its own circuit. You can branch off the ring main but this is limited.
Most plugs are now preinstalled (used to be an extra) most have a 3amp fuse unless high load. This is great for power drills as it saves the drill from to much abuse!
My solution is one of those rotating receptacles and puting a motor on it to spin it so that centrifigal force would throw off any forgein object..
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Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
But if you install it with the ground up, it doesn't make nearly as nice a face shape.
"But if you install it with the ground up, it doesn't make nearly as nice a face shape."
LOL! I saw an outlet w/ faceplate once that was painted as Mickey Mouse on the top and Minnie on the bottom. They were partaking in some, er, "recreation". Too funny!
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
I still say get the rotating receptacle. Then you can set up with the ground up and the other ground down.Or one to the left and one to the right.That will drive EVERYONE equally crazy..
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Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
A "ground up" receptacle would seem to imply that the entire thing was ground up into teeny tiny fragments. Whereas a "ground down" would imply that perhaps it was sticking a little bit too far out of the wall so you took your 4 1/2" Makita grinder and grinded it down just until it was flush. In other words, a ground up receptacle would be absolutely worthless.
~Peter
What everybody said - I like them ground up, because I hate all those angry little faces looking at me all the time...