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I am adding three new circuits to this porch that I am completing. I am running all the wiring myself except the final connections to the box. Carpentry etc. I will do…..playing with the panel…no thanks.
My question concerns running the romex along the bottom of the floor joists. Do we need to run in conduits? If so is there any specification as to what type of PVC conduit to run?
I appreciate the help.
SJ
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Replies
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Check your local code. In some cities, romex is fine; in other cities, all circuits must be in conduit. I would use metal conduit, except for underground applications in which pvc is generally used. For three circuits, you will need 2 neutrals and 3 hots, a total of five wires. I would think that 1/2" conduit would be fine. If romex is allowed, then a single 12-3 and 12-2 would be fine. If open to the weather, exerior grade romex is probably a wise choice. If under the house and sealed from moisture, then regular romex is fine.
Hope this helps.
*Not an electrical aspect, but: If the joists you reference are in an adjacent basement, using EMT clamped to every joist makes a good support and a handy spot for storing moulding, small lumber pieces, pipe, etc. Wife even uses the conduit in basement for hanging clothes to dry occasionally.
*Three circuits in a porch? The apartments in the building I'm working on only had three circuits each.-- J.S.
*As Scooter said, check your local code. Just call up the building department and say you have a question about electrical building codes. Many areas allow Romex to be run within walls. Some require conduit - flex ("BX"), thinwall metallic, rigid metallic, and/or PVC. Most areas no longer allow the wiring Scooter suggested. You'd need a neutral (a green or bare wire within the conduit). Absolutely in PVC conduit or if there is not continuous metallic conduit all the way from the distribution panel ("breaker box") with appropriate grounding hub in the box."playing with the panel...no thanks" Don't do anything you're not comfortable with. But I've never understood so many peoples' hesitation to working in the distribution panel. It's the same electrons as elsewhere and, like elsewhere, it's a good idea to turn off the breaker for the circuit you're working on. There are those big terminals where power come into the bus, but you can tape up a piece of cardboard over those if you want, likewise any exposed, unfilled-with-breakers lugs on the bus. That just leaves those recessed screw terminals on each breaker, but you'd turn off the breaker you're working on, right? Or just turn off the main breaker, but then you'll have to reset ever clock, VCR, and microwave in the house. But again, don't do anything you're not comfortable with - sweaty palms offer less electrical resistence :-) If you're using a standard (as opposed to electrician's) screwdriver, wrap the shaft in electrical tape, leaving just the very tip exposed metal. -David
*Thanks for the responses.The three circuits aren't just for the porch. Only one is for the porch itself (3-5 outlets & 4 recessed lights). Another circuit is for the deck lighting when we add the deck next year. The last is for a transformer for the "garden" lighting I have been told I will be installing next year (by the better half). So three circuits in all.The wire will be under the porch along the floor joists but exposed to elements (the porch is 19" off the ground). Therefore I am not sure if this would be considered an indoor installation or outdoor?Go figure.SJ
*I missed counted. You need six wires, as I missed the ground. 2 neutral 3 hots and a ground. 6 wires total. I'd use conduit Steve, that is the safe bet, and 12 guage wire, of course. This is for 3 circuits.I noted one circuit is for both outlets and lights. This is generally not the way its done. Most electricians wire outlets to one circuit and lights to another. Lights draw less power, and you can use a 15 amp breaker. Given your applications, I'd be tempted to put the deck and can lighting on one circuit, the outlets on another, and the garden lighting on a third.By the way, I really like to put garden lighting on an inside circuit and place the controlls in a garage or walkout basement. It keeps the controller dry and is more accessable. You will not want that transformer/controller out in the elements. So consider putting it inside, and running low voltage out from the house.See, now you only have 2 circuits.
*If going through the floor joists, romex only may be allowed. Under the floor joists, and you would likely have to run it along a 1x4 secured to the bottom of the joists. Or use conduit. Since it is out of the sun, the inspector may agree to PVC conduit, but ASK FIRST. -David
*To Art B- Electrical conduits are not to be used to support molding, clothes hangers or anything else. This is in the #300 section of the NEC or maybe one of the sections under 200. You can, however, use an empty piece of conduit to support a live piece of conduit. The idea is that one coat hanger is known to multiply like jackrabbits and then all those coat hangers start hanging coats and the weight builds up and the one hole straps stretch and fail and the conduit pulls out of its connectors and falls apart and sags and even the wires can't hold the weight and the heavy weight of those woolen coats pulls the whole apparattus down until the hems of the coats touch the dusty floor of the basement which you haven't swept for 3 months and get dirty. Electrical conduit is usually installed to minimum specifications - that is, enough to barely pass inspection - and is not designed to serve as a coat hanger. Use a gas pipe instead. If it breaks, at least it won't electrocute you.--Peter
*Scooter - Why 2 neutrals and 3 hots? Why not 3 and 3?
*Steve ---While you can ask all sorts of questions here, it is unlikely that you will ask enough to do the work properly.There are volume restrictions on the amount of wires you can run in conduit. There are derating requirements in conduit.By the way the wire count, 3 hot, 2 neutral, and a ground, ommits some important information.If you are unwilling to risk putting the wires in the breaker box, then you should hire a professional to do all of the work.It is your life. I suggest you don't trust any yahoo on the internet.
*George - I appreciate what your saying but I don't think this job is necessarily beyond me...yet. Also, if I were to bring in the electrician to do the whole thing I would like to know what is to be done every step of the way. I also don't think it would be worth the money an electrician will charge me. I would never compromise the safety of this project, everything I would do will be inspected by the local inspector. I have to pull permits for it all anyways. Before any juice goes through what I wire the electrician I bring in to do the final connections will have also looked at my work. So I feel confident in getting most of the wiring and leg work done myself.Scooter - good ideas. I was struggling with the best way to run the romex from the wall outlets to the ceiling anyways. Since it is a screened porch there are no hollow walls cavities to act as a conduit, just 4x4 posts. I also think I agree with the inside termination of the garden circuit.SJ
*Steve,I didn't see anyone mention the use of larger conduit. I rarely use 1/2". Though the wires may fit in the conduit, you'll have a hard time pulling them. Start with 3/4" minimum and limit the number of bends (remember, no more than three bends between pul points). An installation under a deck means it's an exterior application. DO NOT USE ROMEX!!. EMT with water-tight fittings would be the best choice.
*Originally I wasn't planning on using ROMEX then I saw no reason not to. What is the proper wire to use for this application (assuming I use a conduit) under the decking for the porch?Should I just run individual 12 ga lines for hot, neutral & ground? SJ
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I am adding three new circuits to this porch that I am completing. I am running all the wiring myself except the final connections to the box. Carpentry etc. I will do.....playing with the panel...no thanks.
My question concerns running the romex along the bottom of the floor joists. Do we need to run in conduits? If so is there any specification as to what type of PVC conduit to run?
I appreciate the help.
SJ