I am daily feeling more like an idiot on our remodel project. Our GC recommended electrician gave us a quote on our remodel electrical. It was verbal(I am an idiot) as I trust the guy cause he is recommended. The job includes finish out and trim. We got crazy and added more circuits and stuff. We had to add a second panel as we maxed out the one in place(we have a mother in law apt that sucks up the extra on the original panel.)
Now , our fine fellow says that since he went over and did time and materials, he no longer considers trim and finish in whole or part included and wants more time and material for this as well. I think he agreed to this in part on the original. I think he is asking for more money after getting more money. Should he not be willing to do the finish work at least up to the degree of the original agreement. Could one of you Solomons please cut this baby in half for me? Any advice accepted.
Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities- Voltaire
Replies
Time and materials is essentially a no-bid scenario -- you pay him for time and you pay him for materials. Unless he grossly misrepresented how much time it would take, or is somehow misstating the actual time and costs, you have no real recourse.
happy?
Sounds like he's doing more work after doing more work (more circuits, another panel, etc, and more trim for this additional rough); so more money after more money seems right.
I've been in exactly that situation, as the sparky. In those cases, I've done the original rough and trim for the bid price, and upped the price for the rough and the trim not included in the original scope, sometimes as T&M, sometimes at an additional fixed price. I've always tried to give an accurate estimate in either case. I shift to T&M when it looks like the client is making lots of changes on the fly. I don't mind that at all, I just want to be compensated for the extra time it's going to take me to accomodate that style of project management.
One thing you might not be considering is the additional time involved on the subs part to do the work given that the project is growing/evolving/changing along the way. Two things make the cost (and therefore the price charged the client) increase out of apparent proportion to the additional work--repeat trips back for short periods of work, and more time getting the right materials to the job when needed. You don't see it, but your sparky is spending this extra time to get your job done.
Also, if you're changing specs, adding circuits, possibly having trouble making timely decisions, maybe not having information (appliance specs for instance) on hand at the right time, it's an aggrevation factor to the sub, and so he may be upping his prices to compensate for the heartburn.
As far as not having anything in writing, well, if you wanted to do it that way from the start, he should be insisting on approval of written change orders. And a CO ought to include a fixed price for the change, or an estimate if T&M.
So I can relate to your consternation about it costing more, but it sounds like it really should cost more. And it's as much your fault for changing the scope fo the work without having a clear understanding of how it would affect the price.
Just out of curiosity, what's the original scope of the job and the price, what was added, and how'd the price increase?
Cliff
Well, to my own chagrin, I didn't write down the original specs, so I am guilty as charged. And we did have changes and lots of them, so guilty on the second charge as well. In the end, we have about 48 recessed lights, new coax, a circuit of interior speaker wire, a roof fan, a bath fan, moved several circuits in the walls that were removed. Moved some old funky phone wire. No trim yet and we are down 12K. It is a big job, and I may be just pissing and moaning. Have lost all perspective at this point.Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities- Voltaire
Yea, a lot of the time, otherwise extravigant clients choke at the cost of the electrical, because once the 'rock is up, it's pretty much invisible. Even the lighting and lighting controls (dimmers, three-way and four-way switching), if well designed and installed, are taken for granted.
I've had to go in and rescue people who've had a job botched by another electrician. Cans not connected to any circuit, switching arrangements really fouled up, receptacle outlets messed up (like a GFI-protected reefer outlet), and so on. I say--if your guy does the job right and does it well, pay him and smile. Quality work costs money. And I do hope that you're getting a top quality job, if you're paying for one.
Good luck,
Cliff
Choke. Thanks. We will see when we light it up.Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities- Voltaire