Encasing a spliced electrical connection
I’ve got a small gang box high on a hallway wall that is not being used anymore and is in the way of framing a lowered ceiling. It used to mount a hardwired smoke detector.
Unfortunatly it is also in the middle of its circuit. Currently there is a romex leading in and another leading out, with the pairs wire nutted together. I need to splice the wires in such a way that they can be buried in the wall.
Alternatively, I can also spin the box around so it faces into the back of a closed and put a blank cover over it. I’d rather drywall over it though.
I’ve heard there was a way to do it – but I missed out on what exactly it was. Any help?
EDIT: Searching around for this lead me to several opinons that the NEC never allows this, but I remember a topic here awhile back mentioning a way that it could be done – that’s why I’m asking.
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Edited 8/20/2006 2:48 pm ET by xxPaulCPxx
Replies
why not just flip the box and put the blank cover in the closet?
far as I know you can not legally bury the splice in the wall and cover it, you have to allow for access.
Edited 8/20/2006 10:56 pm ET by CAGIV
I remember the thread you'e talking about. I wouldn't bury the connections. You mentioned spinning the box so it opens into the back of a closet, and using a blank plate. This sounds like a good idea to me!
-- Brooks
There is a connector that is permitted to be buried in a wall under certain circumstances, but probably not this one, and the connectors are a specialty item.
So the best advice is to flip the box into the closet.
It does seem that this issue comes up often enough (and enough connections are illegally buried) that it would behoove TPTB to cause a more generally suitable "buryable" connector to be developed. Certainly it's possible to develop something that's safe and reliable.
can you turn it so its in the attic under the insulation, as long as you can get to it, its legal.
I remember a topic here awhile back mentioning a way that it could be done - that's why I'm asking.
There was a long thread whereby some where attempting to rationalize that it was OK to ingore the NEC (just this once, until the next time ;) ), but bottom line is that the splice must be accessible. The closet idea sounds like a good one.
To bad 4Lorn1 hasn't been around for a while. This subject was one of his favorite rants.
I guess he just got tired of repeating the same thing over and over.
Dave
You can't bury that box.
There is a connector for romex that allows a splice or a tap of 12-2 or 14-2 romex without a box, BUT the splice or tap MUST remain accessible.
The conector is an insulation-displacement type, UL-listed and everything. I once had a situation where I really really needed to splice a run of NM and bury it. Thought this IDC connector was the answer. Got the spec sheet, then talked to the manufacturer, and it was real clear that the UL-listing required the thing to be accessible w/o dusturbing the finish of the building.
So I had to re-run the cable. Afterward, looking at the cheesey little plastic IDC connector, I was glad I did. Forever is a long time.
Cliff
That must have been what I was thinking about - thanks for the input.
Just for the record, I did flip that box around to face the opposite wall - and I opened up a hole for it in the back of the closet. Just needed to get it done, but was hoping for a way to do it differently next time.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Huh, I thought you could just solder the wires together, wrap them in electrical tape and cover them with plaster/drywall. I don't think my house has any of those new fangled "Boxes". ;)
you could just solder the wires together, wrap them in electrical tape and cover them with plaster/drywall
LoL!
Or, you could just twist the wires to some lamp cord, twist solder around the joints, then wrap in masking tape--no need of that "fancy 'lectrical stuff" . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I think I've seen a house that you wired.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
Just thought I would add a comment.
I once remodeled a house that I lived in, one that had been built for me by a local contractor about five years earlier. When I tore off the drywall in an exterior wall I found a ceiling box hanging on a piece of Romex about midway between the top and bottom plates, with another piece of Romex coming out the opposite side.
There wasn't even a cover on the box. Inside the box I found electrical tape on the spliced conductors. I shut the circuit down and removed the tape to find the stripped conductors had been barely hand-twisted together. Ain't it amazing what you can get away with (for a while, anyway).
And, yes, I re-routed the splice to a junction box in the attic, and made the connections with Buchanan crimp-on sleeves, thanks to advice from my FIL, a retired electrician.
hate to threadjack, but i have a relevant question that is somewhat related. what about a box that is at the end of the circuit? is it considered safe to wire nut and tape the end of the leads, close the box back up and then drywall back over top of the box?
Only if irrevocably disconnected at the other end (eg, cable cut short and pushed out of the box), and even then some inspectors may balk.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
Little story about drywalling over electrical stuff. For years I thought "what could it hurt?". Then a circuit in MY house went out. Breaker showed "on" but no juice. Finally found a taped joint (yup, no box at all) after chopping my way through way too much gyp board. The 1st owner had done a little basement "finishing" and when he couldn't reach a box he just added a little more, then covered it all up. Part alum wire handtwisted to copper. Drove home the concept that people sell houses and move on. So I consider code (any subject) to be a MINIMAL requirement and go the code one better if at all possible. Tyr
NO...treat it all the same..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Several years ago, I was working with a guy who fixed up foreclosures to sell. Quick, dirty and cheap were the marching orders.
In one of the houses, there was a problem with a couple of family room receptacles so we decided to just replace them. When I pulled the first one, I found it wired with lamp cord. So was the second.............and the rest of the room. When I went into the attic, I found that the entire room had be rewired with lamp cord. That 30 minute receptacle replacement job turned into two days of rewiring. - lol
I found a lamp cord splice in a plaster wall patch off of knob and tube. I also found a splice in the attic that was taped to a scrap of lathe.
My house has been rewired starting by eliminating the "new" stuff added by the PO, such as the previous examples and the family room circuit added for TV/Audio that had the pesky ground cut out of the way....that's not a mistake, it's rustic
and the family room circuit added for TV/Audio that had the pesky ground cut out of the way.
I can do one better than that. Guy had asked me how much to "help" him set up his a/v stuff. After quoting usual rates, I never heard from him. About a year later, I get this call, no one can fix the "hiss-n-pop" in his subwoofer. Go over, there's two new outlets where only one had been before. The duplex is now a quad, no biggie--'cepting for it's got four power strips plugged into it.
I pick up the remote, eyeball it for a bit, and hit the test button (HO does an excellent "dumbfounded" look, oughta be taught in acting classes). Dial in a little volume, listen to the speakers, no big surprises, other than it needs some left balance, al lthe treble put back in, half the bass, and increase the rear delay.
Do that, letting the white noise loop to see if the last tweak is good, and the lights dim a bit as the a/c kicks in. "WHHhhhizzzzzzzat! krpop Whz'z'z'z'z'z" comes out of the s/w. "That's It! That's the noise! Canya fixit?"
Hmm, s/w is in tne new outlet. I select CD, and turn the CD player off--nice hiss fro mthe center speaker--ahh, right about 60hz by ear, too. Pull out the plug tester--not one of the 6 available plug sockets has a ground. "You pay cash for this 'lectrical work?" I go to the attic stairs, and go a-looking.
It's surprisingly easy to find--whoever added the new outlet used the stump end of a beat-up orange extension cord to wire it in. The noise? It's plugged into the service outlet next to the HVAC unit. It's loose in that outlet, too. It's grounded, at least (probably to the drip pan or the drain from same, but I'm not tough enough to go look).
Ask the dude, "You planning on a vacation this year? Don't, call any of these electricians, which ever one actually does show up, just nod a lot and sign the check. Here's my invoice--the speaker tuning is free since you're not going to hear it until the electricans get doen . . . "Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
That is up there with the brownstone I used to pass from my apartment growing up in NYC. It looked like a bundle of extension cord hanging off of the roof. A few months later it was on the news. The entire five story building wired by extension cords stealing power from the neighboring building roof.
Then there was the basement apartment with chicken and sheep noises......that's not a mistake, it's rustic
Then there was the basement apartment with chicken and sheep noises
Yeah, but that could have just been an internet porn studio . . . <g>Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
that sounds more like CAG's place..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
that sounds more like CAG's place
I would be unwilling to speculate on hi domiciliary arrangements <g>.
Given how much he has griped about bad work practices, I'm guessing he's not likely to get the neighbor's nephew's cousin's uncle's neighbor's bot to come use extension cords to wire additions anytime soon . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
and the rest of the room. When I went into the attic, I found that the entire room had be rewired with lamp cord. That 30 minute receptacle replacement job turned into two days of rewiring
The look on the HO's face taught me, eventually, to pull out cards and go, here are the cards of licensed electricans I trust, you really need to talk to one on more of these guys to make sure your house is "right." Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I've seen a house that you wired
'Tweren't me, y'caint prove it, I was never there, an I gots witnesses . . . <g>
I was taught proper 'lectrical work, thank you very much. Same way I learnt my plumbing, by old-fashioned master at the trades (I'm still afraid to see if I still have a good hand at soldering cast iron soil pipe--which is partially because I could only test this on my own house . . . )
Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
'Tweren't me, y'caint prove it, I was never there, an I gots witnesses
you were practicing learning yur way around on a house down in Florida
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
you were practicing learning yur way around on a house down in Florida
Nope, the 'practice' house is just outside Peru, IN, in lovely Miami County.
To the best of my knowledge information and/or belief, all plumbing joints and electrical connections I made up are still in good standing.
House might not be <g>.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I wouldn.t admit to being near that job either.....
even under duress...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
no no no no no no no ...
the Cap has a pssel of 'em...
why can't others...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
the Cap has a pssel of 'em...
why can't others
'Cause other people have the sense to not get into gilding pig ear work (won't buy remodeling, but will buy 70yard plasma home theater with no clue how it fits in their house . . . )Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
but he practiced on the one I bought in Florida...
you didn't get him till the workmanship and quality improved...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
He is talking about knob-and-tube wiring. One type of connection is called something like 'western union' after the telegraph company.No boxes, shared neutrals, etc. Works fine, if you don't mess with it, put insullation around it, and the rodents don't get to the casing that goes around the wire when it passes through wood.
My local hardware store has those plastic splice/tap connectors and I've been wondering about them. The guys at the store don't know if they're code compliant (even though they're UL listed), and I haven't had the opportunity to ask an inspector.
Has anyone had them pass an inspection?
You're probably talking about either ScotchLok connectors or the new push-the-wire-in-the-hole connectors (don't recall their name). I don't believe that ScotchLoks are legal for house wiring (though I may be wrong). The new connectors are supposedly legal, but they're so new that they don't have a track record. But they just replace wire nuts, and must be in a box.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
There are a lot of things sold in hardware stores that do not meet the code.
I know that - lol
My question was if anyone had actually used one - and passed an inspection.
Depends a lot on what they left stuck in the horn rim of the inspector's car.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison