I have a 35 X 90 steel shop bldg. Built a series of rooms inside the shell. Has 8 ft ceilings; 15 ft clear span. Used 2X8 yellow pine, as per span tables. Put diagonal bracing at third points to keep from rolling over & collapsing. About to have it inspected. Question: Do I need to put full depth 2X8 blocking at the ends of the joists? I’d swear I read that requirement somewhere. Needless to say, there’s no rim joist since it is a free standing room w/ no connection to the exterior frame of the bldg.
Don
Don Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
“If it scratches, I etch it!”
The Glass Masterworks
“If it scratches, I etch it!”
Replies
Greetings Don,
This post, in response to your question, will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again.
Perhaps it will catch someones attention that can help you with advice.
Cheers
'Nemo me impune lacesset'
No one will provoke me with impunity
I'm curious as to why you didnt use a rim joist? Shop or not IMO if nothing else it would look better closed up (rim or Blocked in). If I understand your post correctly, The shop itself has a ceiling higher than the 8ft of your rooms.
I dont have my code book handy, so sorry I cant address whether or not its necessity.
If it were me i'd put them in.
Don,
"Do I need to put full depth 2X8 blocking at the ends of the joists?"
Just my opining, but I'ld say that end blocks are the first line of defense against rolling, not an optional thing.
"Needless to say, there's no rim joist since it is a free standing room w/ no connection to the exterior frame of the bldg."
No ribbon joist and no blocks? Cheapin' out on us are ya? Wanna bet you'll later want to use that "roof" space for storage?
Seriously, I'ld definately put the blocks in, wouldn't worry about the ribbons since you don't really care about appearance and there's no weather inside.
SamT
Sam: My plumber friend from Columbia. #2 Son went to Univ Mo at Columbia. Know the town, but not well.This was the first attempt at any framing I ever made. Got a man to guide the effort who supposedly knew code. Not too sure he did. As I have gone on in building house & shop, I've learned a bunch. Used span tables in some lumber book to select ceiling joists. Allowed 15 ft clear span for yellow pine 2X8, BUT - allowed absolutely zero storage on it. Yes, I went lowest cost (Cheap, maybe?) on this. Had I gone to 2X10, probably could store on it. Only about 4 ft clear space at center of bldg, about 1 ft at eave, so no real capability. Really don't like toenailing, so used Simpson hurricane clips to hold joists to top plates. They protect some against rolling. Didn't get diagonal bracing in right away, and after about 3 or four months was horrified by what I saw - joists were starting to roll in center. It was at that point in time that I realized that failure of a long span 2X was not through failure of the bottom of the joist in tension, but rather by rolling & probably breaking across the width. Very quickly put in diagonals, but not just at center of span. Put them at the third points. Used Simpsin bracing. Was a real chore to put them in, since I had to true up every joist and had no real datum for them being straight. Took almost a full day to do the job. Interestingly, the ends had not rolled much at all. The hurricane clips kept them pretty near vertical. It was amazing how stiff those diagonals made the whole structure. Only had one joist that was a real pill to straighten, and it was, fortunately, on one end, and I had a sill that I could fasten it to in order to pull it straight. Took a real long lever & about 8 - 20d cement coated spikes to get into place & hold it there. It has now been about 6 yrs since I did that fix, & everything is still true. Never had the shop inspected, & have had my permit open since August, 1997. County is pretty rural in Nawth Jawja, so it has been pretty loose about such things. I discovered early on that sometimes I knew more than the inspector about code - that really scared the crap out of me. I think we are now on our fifth head inspector in the county. About two yrs ago, rec'd a call from cty planning office asking when I was going to get bldg finished. Needed to get electrical done first, & that was a real pain - seems we were using the bldg & it was stuffed full of junk, tools, 7 crap. Couldn't clean out enough space to get to walls to do wiring. I am fortunate trhat hed inspector wants to solve problems, rather than make them, so he has granted me two extensions on permit. A little thing like prostate cancer treatment got in the way, followed by a flashback of some PTSD I brought home from Nam. So - here I am, ready, finally, to get inspected. Looked up at the joists & had a nagging feeling about the lack of a rim, and recalling that I'd read somewhere that you needed blocking at the ends under these circumstances. The idea of a rim joist doesn't excite me. It would be held to the joists by nails into end grain. Don't like the idea of strentgth depending on the fasteners. In my book they should only be holding it together, and there is not going to be a deck on it to improve the stiffness. Blocking is the strongest way to go in my book. It will require a lot of quality time w/ my chop saw & a bunch of heavy 2X8's, but best. Not sure where I read it, so it's easier to ask than to do the gut-wrenching research to find it. Oh, yes, I was pretty confident what the answer would be. Just had to HEAR it! Called the head inspector last week & told him that I was about to ask for the inspection, knowing full well that my latest extension ran out this month. All of a sudden there's no pressure about date - guess he just wants to get the thing off the books as open. Back when I rec'd my two permits (house & shop) they didn't even ask to see plans. Now you have to file them like in every other urban area. Guess Atlanta caught up with us.I am really asking for frorgiveness, rather than permission - you see, we moved into the shop bldg to live before the roof was even on. No toilet, no water. We were desperate for a place to live. The county permit people knew darned well what was going on - it was a classic "We won't ask; don't you tell." Probably close out the inspection next week. Plan on doing the wiring, then I can call them.Thanks for the comment on the joists. Loks like some quality time w/ the ladder & nail gun next week. Hammer doesn't even cross my mind.DonDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
Nails hold fine (shear mode) in end grain. If you try to pull them out, then they don't hold well at all. Blocks would be stronger, but I would just nail on a rim.
Don,
Zero storage? doan worry 'bout blocks or rims. Just keep 'em from rolling.
Sorry to hear 'bout your Prostate.
I had mine taken out along with EVERYthing connected to it in my bladder cancer operation.
Just now coming out of that pit$$$
SamT
Sam: PC chased me for nearly ten yrs. Kept flunking PSA tests, but passing biopsies. Had 6 unsuccessful biopsies. Struck paydirt on 7th. Found malignancy in one sample out of 12. When urologist told wife & me, we were relieved. He asked how we took it so cavalierly. Told him that there were at least 7 reasons. It wasn't stomach, pancreas, lung, liver, kidney, melanoma or a brain tumor. PC is at least easily treated if caught early. Not so some of the others. Sounds like I can throw bladder into the mix. Sounds like un-fun. Hope it all works out well for you.DonDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
I'll vote rim or blocking. Here, they let a catwalk suffice in lieu of, but I've always nailed a rim. Blocking if there's no room now.
"he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain