Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | Dec 01, 1999 04:18pm | #1

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   I like the laminste flooring (Pergo). Easy to install, looks are a matter of taste.

   Rick Tuk

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   Guest_ | Dec 02, 1999 05:03pm | #2

   *I got to learn a bit about laminate flooring when we had a bad install/major water problem on a job.The floor is a Formica brand laminate that came in 8"x6 or 8 foot pieces, approximately. We laid it diagonally in a basement. There was a big plumbing leak while the owners were out of town. About a week later the floor buckled up into a three-inch high wave about ten feet from one corner.It turns out that the installer did not follow the instructions regarding perimeter spacing. Most laminate floors are designed to "float" which is to say they need room to expand and contract so you must leave a gap all around the edges of a certain size.For floors less than 20' (as I recall) in the direction perpendicular to the long side of the material, the gap was specified as 1/4". Longer spans need more, and in fact Formica's factory directions require an expansion joint (an ugly saddle) in the field if the floor is over a certain width. The Formica rep told me no one uses this detail because no one wants a saddle running through the middle of the floor, and he said there have been no problems. The measurement perpendicular to the long edge of the pieces in this room was over 40 feet, so he recommended a 1/2" gap minimum.When we took up the perimeter trim, we could see the floor was touching the plates of the walls on two sides of the room right where the wave in the floor was. We concluded that the water had caused the floor to expand and when both ends of one row of floor hit the wall, there was nowhere for the floor to go but up. The rep supplied my sub with more material and they reinstalled the corner where the wave was, this time with the proper clearances on the edges. Problem solved.I got to talk to the rep for a while about this type of flooring. He told me he thinks Formica is the best (big surprise!) and showed me why: first, their material has a thin layer of laminate on the bottom as well as the top. This helps durability and reduces moisture uptake. Second, their top layer is top quality. I have noticed myself that Formica brand countertops seem more durable than Wilsonart, so I tend to find this credible. He claimed they do tests involving using a sander to wear through the floor and Formica holds up longest. He even said it's better than real wood and while I believe him that it takes longer to wear out a laminate floor than a wood one, I am pretty sure that the wood will be cheaper to refinish. (Heh.) Last, he said the Formica brand middle layer was made from Doug Fir and is more water resistant than the other guys'. It looked like regular particle board to me, but what do I know? I was impressed overall though.Lessons learned:1. This floor survived a deluge that would have destroyed any real wood floor and possibly any other laminate floor. But for an installation error, there would have been no problem at all.2. These floors are a complex system and need to be installed per spec, including specific gluing instructions, perimeter spacing, plastic underlayment install, etc. I find with this type of thing that spelling out at the beginning that you expect a by-the-book install and then reading the book and making sure it's followed is the way to go.3. Formica is the brand I would use, although I could be talked out of it.

2. 
   tim_parkan | Dec 03, 1999 06:08pm | #3

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   do you know anything about engineered wood floors? I like the look of real wood but like the durabiltiy of a pergo or wilsonart.

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   tim_parkan | Dec 03, 1999 06:12pm | #4

   *How long have you had your Pergo flooring? I am planning on installing a flooring system to dining and kitchen. I have looked at all flooring systems. i like the look of real wood (engingeered floors) but like the durability of the Pergo type systems. People have dommented that the Pergo floors sound hollow since they are a floating floor.

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   JIm_R | Dec 04, 1999 12:02am | #5

   *Try http://www.floorsearch.comThe flooring experts at that sight love the engineered wood floors especially some of the newer ones with better and tougher finishes. I have used Harris Tarkett products in 2 of my own homes and was very pleased with them. They looked great, were easy to install and I always felt that I could refinish them if ever needed (but after over 10 years it was never needed - just some minor scratching as would be expected with wood or even laminate for that matter).

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   Guest_ | Dec 09, 1999 05:23pm | #6

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   Floorsearch is a great place to look for discussions on laminates and engineered products. The hardwood forum at hoskinghardwood.com is another when comparing engineered to solids. Please use the search option first to look for related subjects as there are many repeated questions.

4. 
   gregory_herriman | Dec 11, 1999 11:11am | #7

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   I recently installed Wilsonart's classic oak in several areas of my home. The installation is not difficult, but it can be time consuming if many cuts are involved. One piece of advice. If tested it will scratch! My four year old son drove a plastic wheeled tri-cycle across the floor several times and it did scratch the laminate surface. The scratches don't go all the way through the top surface and are only visible if the light hits them just right. Mom always said, "don't ride bikes in the house!"

   Also, I bought my laminate over the internet at "www.floorshop.com". It was 20% cheaper than the best retail price I could get in Phoenix and no tax! The site has a great estimating tool. You enter the square feet of area you want to cover and the estimating software does the rest. They shipped it to my door in less than a week and the freight charges were less than $200. Not bad for 1,400 lbs of wood and underlayment.

5. 
   Guest_ | Dec 12, 1999 02:34am | #8

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   Greg:

   Very interesting site. Looks like they have some bases covered though I didn't see any attention to moldings? With laminates and prefinished engineered floors there is a need to know, as that can hike the cost. How about the underlayment with the WilsonArt? Is that included in the final price along with the glue? Your shipping costs are low because it travelled less than 8 hours from Ventura to Phoenix. I guess floorshop is trying to set up distribution centers to keep freight costs down..but I wouldn't expect it soon. Looks like a good west coast place to shop?

   I wonder what my freight cost would be on the same 1400 lbs to SW Florida. BTW...some prices on some of the products were a tad high for internet sales as I've seen lower for the identical quality product.

   I'd be very interested with further input.

   :)

6. 
   gregory_herriman | Dec 13, 1999 01:33am | #9

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   The moldings can be a bit tricky and drive up the cost. Floorshop.com includes information about the moldings in their estimating portion of the site "accuquote". It is an optional component to your quote. You can get more information (including photos, installation info, etc.) about the moldings if you double click on them inside accuquote. You can get a free quote on the cost of the flooring system (don't forget to include the moldings).

   When I ordered my flooring, I called floorshop and was told that they are setting up distribution centers around the country. That should help with the shipping costs.

   As far as the underlayment. Their accuquote system automatically includes foam underlayment, glue, tapping block, vapor barrier and the planks or tiles in the final quote. You can customize your quote to exclude or change any of those items. I upgraded to the acoustical cushion instead of the foam. I think it made a big difference in minimizing that hollow sound that I heard in the Pergo system in a friends house.

   Ken, did you run a quote on floorshop.com's accuquote system? I am curious about the shipping cost to Florida.

7. 
   Guest_ | Dec 13, 1999 03:08am | #10

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   We installed some BHK laminate flooring in our office and have found that we seem to be wearing off the finish, specifically in the area under the desk that gets the most use. The floor in this area is now a couple of shades lighter than elsewhere. Anyone else find this happening?

   Also, we're finding that the edges of Pergo do swell in contact with water. We discovered this in the area of a kitchen floor where the dog's water bowl lives. Anyone else?

   Also, I'm not sure the word "hollow" accurately describes the sound these floors make. To me it has more of a thin, plasticky sound.

1. 
   Guest_ | Dec 16, 1999 01:58am | #11

   *Greg:I didn't qet a quote on shipping(AOL running REAL slow right now) but was impressed with the accuquote system. The nearest distribution center to me is about the same distance(Dalton, Ga) yours had to travel. After looking at their calculations on how much one needs with products such as Pergo and Harris-Tarkett, I find they don't use a very good waste factor and it's looks like alot of folks may be coming up short? I use 7% on those wider boards if the flooring goes into other rooms and isn't a basic square room. With the two products mentioned at 400 SF both had waste factors of ONLY 3%. Pretty cool site though..I'll have to check back from time to time.

8. 
   M._Harlos | Jan 05, 2000 05:22am | #12

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   Getting ready to install new floor in a family room. Would like feedback on experiences with engineered wood flooring or laminate flooring. Looking for the good, the bad, and the ugly. I will be installing the floor myself and have been researching manufacturers, etc. but would like find comparisons or something of that nature.
   Thanks