Hi all,
I attend a community college and I am studying computer aided drafting and architectural construction technology. One of the classes we have to take is an overview of construction estimating. We use the the Walkers building reference book as a text. It seems geared to larger commercial jobs.
I was wondering how smaller outfits do estimates. Could someone give me a little primer on how it is done? For example how do time and materials type estimates work (from handymen or single to two man crews) versus estimating techniques for medium sized crews? I would be interested to hear various viewpoints and techniques or tips you all may have; and from as many of you as would be interested in responding. Also what area of the country are you in if you like. I am in West Virginia.
Thanks,
Webby
Edited 2/27/2005 1:41 pm ET by webby
Replies
Howdy.
Walker is for big commercial work.
You should also get yourself over to JHLC Online. Bob Kovacs visits here at times too , but his forum is there. He is a professional estimator.
http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=5
stick estimating is the most accurate and the most time consuming. That is where you build the project in your mind and count every stick or piece you will use in the job. It works OK for a small job and is probably best for somebody just starting out and unsure of themselves. But it is unworkable for larger jobs.
I started out with stick estimating and traceked what I did with job costing to get a history for future estimates.
The problem with that is that I do remnovation work on older structures and no one of them is ever the same, so fourty percent of the work is something new we have not done befiore and have no reference on.
I have been using Walt Steppleworth's system the last few years. he databases unit assemblies for labor and materials costs. Google it up under Hometech. He has an online version that has a thirty day free use, a regular monthly subscription, or a purchaase full system on CD. You could get an ideqa of how it works by signing up for the free 30 day monthly. As a student, there may also be some limited version of the CD available to you cheaper too.
That is all for remo work. On a new house, i dio bit different, thought it has been several yeaars since i built all new, just additions as part of remo now. Anyway, I design on Softplan CAD. It and other CAD programs can create a list of materials for you, some more accurtate than others. That can be imported to Excell for modification according to the guess factor.
That guess factor can be the most important part of a skilled estimator's tools or skills. His years of experience and judgement tell him when to add a percentage for various factors. Things like walker points out such as rough terrain or shrubbery to protect arte one thing. But there are others such as homeowners personality quirks that can tip you off to possible later demands not included in the objective scope of work, but neccessary to include to satisfythe customer and collect that final check. Or things like I see sometimes here - a "celebrity factor" where deadlines changer or work hours are defined by an actor's sleep schedule or the tuesday PM tea party that requires cleanups...
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Thanks for the reply Piffin,
I visited the link you gave and was really impressed with the amount of information I gained from reading some of the posts and replies. I posted the original thread to gain information for my class, and to learn more about estimating and pricing work. while my class is an introduction to large scale estimating it also made me think of the times I have done odd jobs for people.
I don't take on jobs that I don't know how to do, and I am not a construction professional meaning no license. But several odd jobs that I have done for people, handyman type stuff, I was perfectly capable of doing. I charged them a little bit, but hardly more than minimum wage. I like doing the work, and it helps me while I get through school. I hope to learn more about pricing small jobs so that in the future when a neighbor approches me I could actually charge something more in line with my experience and skill, and not feel guilty about it.
If I had an idea of how a pro would price the job I could actually do the job and make a little bit, plus save the customer some and do a job a busier contractor wouldn't want to mess with.
Webby
Even as a handy helping guy, no one is going to think you know anything if you are charging them minimum wage. Labor is hard work. Its different then showing up at an office or a grocery store. I think you could easily ask for $12-15/ hr with your light skill set.
Remember, even when you see figures bigger than you expected, that self employed contractors have a LOT of overhead. When all is said and done they arent making much of an hourly wage. As experience and knowledge of certain tasks, and products increase, so will speed and methods that make a job faster. Bidding and finishing within expected time frames is one way we can make profit.
Some of my clients that I know well, I give a deal by working t+m (time + materials). You can make a regular wage this way, but there has to be trust between the parties.
Bidding, I usually figure the materials needed, and how much time I think it will take. Some duties are set, and take a similar amount of time every time, but others change and you need a judgement. In my judgement I usually cover my butt. I have only had one job that took 2x as long as I expected, and I didnt loose my shirt... just didnt make much.
When figuring time, some contractors will do that in man days. They look at it and say thins will take 2 men, 4 days. Once someone has bid for a while you would be surprised how close they can nail it down, but that takes practice, and experience.
-zen
oh, Im a 1 man, occasionally 2, Specialty Interior, Custom Paint and Finish Carpenter.
Thanks zendo,
I appreciate your point of view and the information for my class. Sometimes, like I said neighbors or freinds will ask me if I can do a job for them. I have thought about doing the handyman type business, or especially light remodeling work. I appreciate the craftsmanship, and would enjoy the flexibility.
Why I haven't is that I feel like I need more experience, and at 35 years of age I can't really take a pay cut to be a gopher for someone. I tried that once but the guy didn't really well, I had a hard time learning from this guy and all it seemed like he wanted to do was yell, so I went to school.
Most of what I have learned I taught myself.
Also what is beginning to appeal to me more and more because of the economy we live in, is the desire to have a skill that is not dependent on the job market necessarily like other employment is. You know? I wish that I had a skill that I could fall back on if something happened, i.e. downsizing layoffs, etc. I would rather not be a cog in someone elses money making machine. You know?
I also really enjoy woodworking.
But at 35 I don't know...
Whenever I listen to people relate their success stories, alot of them say that "I was broke, and I looked around and did the only thing I knew." I feel like this and some related things are the only thing I know. Just wish I could make them work for me.
Thanks for the ear, and sorry for the long post.
Webby