I’ve got an excuse to buy a trailer, but am torn on open or enclosed. I am an architect- I don’t need one, just want one.
We are finishing up construction on a new cottage. I could use a trailer to haul furniture up there, or bring our new kitchen cabinets and vanities up, or make a dump run, or pick up the 3 units of 1x6x16ft T&G waiting for me to install, or use as a mobile shed.
If I get a big enough trailer, I can pick up that 1×6 and save $700 shipping costs. My truck can handle it, but I would be buying a trailer bigger than even I think I need.
Under consideration are a 12ft 3 ton equipment hauler, or a 7x14ft enclosed V nose.
Enclosed is about 1.5x the cost of the open trailer.
Would I regret buying the bigger enclosed trailer? Is there a good resale market for these?
Your thoughts are appreciated!
Brian
“Good design is good business”<!—-> <!—-><!—->
<!—-><!—-> <!—->Florence<!—-><!—-> Schust Knoll (1917-)<!—-><!—->
Replies
Think about what you are really likely to do with the trailer, then make the decision. Be honest. Is there a need or is it an expensive feel good toy?
I started with a tandem axle 10K eqiupment trailer years ago and never used it. it was too big for what I was driving and I was warned that it was probably too big for the troopers if I got stopped. I went back to a much smaller open box trailer and got some use out of it. I've recently changed my location and business and could justify an enclosed, but it would be full of stored stuff in a month and would never move again. :-) I'm still thinking about it, but I may be able to get an open one cheap, then that's what I'll start with. I don't want to wind up with two or three of them. I could see that happening.
Over the last 6 months, I've probably rented trailers about 8 times. U-Haul has the enclosed ones, when they are available, for about $25/ day. Open ones are cheaper. Get them for a week, they are cheaper. When you are done, give them back and forget about it. Put the leftover money towards a vacation or in your IRA. No storage problems, no maintenance, no registrations to pay for. (If you need a bigger one, go to a commercial rental house.)
You don't give the prices, which probably means they are expensive. The last one I looked at enclosed, flat front was I believe 10', and it was about $1750. Quality is important in purchase and in resale. From what I've seen, if they are taken care of, they seem to hold value pretty well - more so with enclosed. Open ones are easy to get and/or build so there isn't as much interest.
Good luck.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
do you have a place to keep a trailer parked that is secured? nothing worse than going to get it and it's gone ,been there,done it.if you go a open trailer i would go with one that can handle a car [16x8] because there is always a demand for them when you sell.12' is pretty small .the problem i would have with a enclosed that was used just for hauling is i would make a storage shed out of it and pretty soon it would be so full it would take 5 hours to empty it.
i hate to say it but i'm a trailer junkie. i have a 12' dump,16' car/bobcat,2-12'utilty,one with sides one without,and a small 5x8 for the lawnmower, a couple misc beater trailers.
now if i could only have 2 it would be the dump and the 5x8,if only one and it would be the dump trailer. i know i need help but i haven't found the 12 step program for trailer addicts. larry
hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
Now you've got me thinking dump trailer. I can understand why you have more than a few.
"Good design is good business"<!----><!----><!---->
<!----><!----><!---->Florence<!----><!----> Schust Knoll (1917-)<!----><!---->
the dump traileris the greatest for me ,but i have rentals and probaly make 40-50 loads a year to the dump.use to havea dump truck but all the maint,ins etc. i replaced it with this trailer. common price is around 5500.00 . mines more than paid for itself. larryhand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
you don't mention if either is single/tandem or if tight/loosely sprung - I have to tell you that a short trailer way under its capacity can bounce around like a loco rabbit: that's one reason why a lot of like the get a long, heavy-built, trailer. Starting with a heavy trailer (and that weight has to come from being enclosed) is just altogether easier than playing with adjustable springs or frequently moving the axles.
A tandem is really a nice tow, unless it's empty; some are still nice. You know, maybe you need to hitch up to a coule of the choice for a day or two and see which one feels better.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Bman,
I used to run a trailer building company.. We built them but had the devil of a time selling them. After about a year and a half I cut my losses and closed the company.. I still have the equipment so it wasn't all a loss and I did enjoy some decent write offs, but....
I can tell you a lot about the practical aspects of trailer ownership if you'd like.. I can tell you about ride and safety and well just about all you need to know about trailers..
I can tell you about the common mistakes most make with trailers and more importantly tow vehicles..
Are you interested?
"Are you interested?"I would think that it's a pretty good bet that he's at least interested in hearing the answers to the questions he asked...;o)
Hey, don't look at me, I'm mentally retireded.
Luka,
Not always, his later posts indicated that he'd made up his mind. That saved me a lot of typing. (frankly I think he made the right decision based on what information he gave us)
Well, if Bman isnt' interested I sure am and probably a lot of others. Share the knowledge, man!
john7g
What would you like to know? That trailers are nice to have but a pain in the,... er back side?
That tandem doesn't tow better than a properly designed/ built single axle. I sold mostly tandem axles because that's what people wanted but once they towed a single axle that was properly designed and loaded they wanted to get rid of their tandem?
That maintinance on a trailer is critical because they don't have the same engineering in them that a car does yet they weigh much more. (loaded)
That a long trailer backs up easier than short trailers?
That a properly designed enclosed trailer will get better mileage than an open trailer? That lights and the connection between the trailer and the tow vehicle is the #1 maintinace issue followed by bearings, brakes, and fenders (on open trailers)..
That a well designed surge brake system is superior to electric brakes by a massive amount. That there is a simple way to back up a surge brake trailer (actaully two ways)
That a heavy trailer is no guarantee that it's either well built or sturdy. Some of the best built trailers also happen to be the llightest.
That most trailers can be broken into with a jackknife?
My last design is based on a carbon fiber enclosure with aluminum running gear. I can haul a 2500 pound car in a trailer that weighs only 710 pounds.. independant suspension and a entry height of only 9 inches.. designed not to scrape on steep ramps or driveway entrances.. (but you'll wait a darn long time for delivery since I'm shut down while the house is under construction)..
Would you like simple ways to check that your trailer is properly designed and built? (less that 1 in 10 has been) Or do you need ways to fix problems or retrofit brakes?
what about matching the bolt circle of your tow vehicle with the bolt circle of your trailer so you have a spare tire?
How about clueing me in on just a few of them such as
>That a well designed surge brake system is superior to electric brakes by a massive amount. That there is a simple way to back up a surge brake trailer (actaully two ways) <
I like the idea of a surge break better since you don't have to rely on the tow vehicle having the equpt already installed.
>Would you like simple ways to check that your trailer is properly designed and built? (less that 1 in 10 has been) Or do you need ways to fix problems or retrofit brakes? <
Don't own a trailer as of yet but you never know.
john7g
To back up a trailer with surge brakes, drill a hole in the sliding coupler with the coupler extended all the way out.. when you back up drop a pin (Bolt screw, whatever) into the hole and that locks out the surge portion.
The other way is if you don't like the idea of getting out and putting a pin in every time you can buy one of those Hurst LINE LOC kits that hot rod shops sell. Wire it into your backup lights and when you switch into reverse your brakes are prevented from locking up..
Three things to check with a trailer.
1st
Frame alignment.. the trailer wheels should be parallel, you'd be amazed at how many aren't and the hitch should be equal distance between the wheels..
That's real easy to check. Using a plumb bob drop a line at the hitch and the trailer wheels. mark those spots. Move the trailer out of the way and measure them.. If the distance between the hitch and the wheel on the left isn't identical to to one on the right you have a misaligned trailer.. a tiny little bit means a tiny little bit of sway, How much induced sway do you want in your trailer?
If you have a tandem trailer run string along side the middle of both wheelsI've used stakes, jackstands, cement blocks, anything! I run the string right up past the hitch point.
The string should touch just barely kiss both the front and back of both tires and extend to the front hitch. measure from the string to the center of the hitch the distance should be exactly the same, exactly!
If the tires aren't kissed properly or the hitch stone in the center you have a trailer out of alignment.. Your trailer will sway..
2nd
55 to 60% of the weight should be ahead of the axles.. never, ever, load the back of the trailer so it is light in the front end!
3rd
Tire pressure should be near the maximum allowed. (unless you need to travel a long way empty and have some easy way to refill the pressure when you load it)
you left out built in camber....
i too am a trailer junky... if i was to guess on todays count... it'd have to be 25-40 i know a wide range but hey... i'm not where i can count...
I will say the one i use most often is a small 5x8 single with a tilt bed... i can't get my big mowers on it but for run'n & pick'n stuff up and being so light that i move it around by hand alot... it also works well behind my ATV...
i built my bobcat trailer and it's as good as any... i know everything on it is square ... i double up and use it for the big mowers but... i've already built another just like it with a single axle and just a bit lighter... if i ever can i prefer single axle...
i had a small fleet of 26ft enclosed trailers when i was in the show car business... and you run of the mill cargocraft/haulmark/wells/united... will not take cross country trips day in day out... just not what they are designed for and i beefed em up and got the good stuff from the get go... screwed on skins will come unscrewed period... but for the price i got 1 yr out of em... never expected more...
a ladder rack on a small trailer will really increase what you can do with it... a 5x8 with a rack can now carry long ladders and long materials...
i have a dump trailer but... i'm not a huge fan... much prefer the dump truck... or maybe it's just an excuse to have one... what kid doesn't want a dump truck...
hard for a one size fits all trailer... they each have their place... I know i use one at least once a week... on a slow week sometimes everyday for weeks on end...
p
ponytl,
I know what you mean about trailers having their place, I used to build a fiberglas enclosed one with the right stuff from the get go. I riveted mine to the frame, and actually bolted the panels together with nylocks and large fender washers on both sides, 4 inches apart. massive overkill but then I've never had a single failure in over 20 years. Mine were sturdy, light, and extremely strong. A 28 footer that I built had a rollover at speed with an extremely heavy cargo. What happened is the owner loaded a tractor into it but it's roll bar wouldn't permit it all the way in.
Rather than unload it and have someone haul the tractor in to the shop for the needed repairs he pulled the ramp door up and left it dangle on the winch strap, using the ramp door to hold the tractor in place (no tie downs {he was only going a few miles}) ?!?!????!!!
Anyway here's this 28 foot trailer with a tractor at the back end and he gets it up to 45 mph and naturally it whips out of control taking it and the 3/4 ton suburban with it rolling down a hill.
Now the tractor smashed some of the panels and it was totalled by the insurance company as was the trailer and the suburban, except some enterprising guy bought it, patched the panels back together and sold it.. It's still around hauling race cars..
As for built in Chamber, I never put any in. On straight axles if you undersize the axle to start with you need positive chamber to offset the inevitable flexing that resulted, if you were using torsion bars and they were sized correctly for the load vertical resulted in the least amount of drag and the longest wearing tires. I built a couple of A arm trailers which had unequal length upper and lower A arms just like a car has.. that resulted in the best towing, smoothest pulling trailer but was terribly expensive deal. Someone really wanted the finest when they asked for that and had to already know or experianced one to be willing to step up to that plate. Nearly twice the price of a typical trailer (but mine were already 40% more expensive to start with)
Out in the southwest you'll find my baby. It's an aluminum pan, carbon fiber enclosed trailer with A arm suspension from a Corvette with Corvette tires and wheels. 710 pounds and it hauls around a vintage Corvette.
I skinned an alum one with VHBT Very high bonding tape that a guy got me from 3M... i tested a few panels of .040 alum onto a 1" sq steel frame... it ripped the alum before it came loose... well never came loose... it's som bad stuff plus it acts as an insulator between dissimilar metals... i understand they use it aircraft and some commercial bodies....
I've used dexter axles but found cost wise it just didn't work out... i did build one for a very low racecar once using a pair from a FWD GMC motorhome... the 2 wheels on each side were on a center pin like a king pin... used springs where it had airbags... but it was till fun to build and it pulled really well...
featherlite has some of the nicest i've seen but... about 3-4x what you can get a hallmark for... never owned an alum trailer... just cause one has never presented itself to me... but it would be nice i guess... mine are just another tool and like tools you need different ones to fit the job...
post some pics of your trailer... sounds more like functional art than basic tool
p
Put a ball-valve in the brake-line and use it for a parking break too. Surge brakes were great behind the 2-tons of GMC I used to tow with, put the same trailer behind a smaller car (or compact pick-up), and the car had trouble stopping the trailer.
Your test will more often find that the trailer-ball isn't in the middle (and doesn't need to be): better tests can be set up with lasers, or just measure from the back wheels of the truck to the trailer wheels. In my limited experience, there were more problems with axles not being mounted in the middle, than any other. You also have to really watch stagger, make sure the tires match and are rotated regularly.
<!----><!----> <!---->
Phill Giles<!----><!---->
The Unionville Woodwright<!----><!---->
PhillGiles,
Lazers sure must have improved recently, the ones I've tried have a dot bigger than an 1/8 inch in the distances we are speaking about. I used monofilement fishing line when I wanted accuracy. (besides I'm cheap remember? ;-)
As for surge brakes and smaller tow vehicles.. if you size the master clyinder on the surge unit correctly you can stop a frieght train with a tricycle. A typical 7/8 master clyinder will push a smaller sized tow vehicle all over. Hopefully you are aware that the master clyinder size determines the effective braking and specify the correct size.. (PS I wouldn't be surprised if you weren't aware, NASCAR needed Road Racers to teach them to size their master clyinders correctly to stop and that's only really happened in the last decade)
As for not being in the center of the vehicle, not so.. if it's not you get assemtric thrust in the opposite direction the offset is which will want to turn the tow vehiocle sideways under braking..
The trouble with a simple measurement from the trucks back wheels is you just made an assumption that the truck is straight. Why risk a complication? In addition a simple measurement doesn't tell you if the trailer wheels are aligned. If the left side wants to turn right and the right side is straight or any combination thereof, you've got a handleing problem.. Stringing the wheels will show you those problems.
Standard GM bumper has holes for three balls; I usually had two (1 7/8" and a 2"); that offset wasn't even noticeable, less than the torque pull from an LT1.
the rear wheels are square because you have a regular alignment (pays for itself in gas and rubber)
<!----><!----> <!---->
Phill Giles<!----><!---->
The Unionville Woodwright<!----><!---->
I always move the ball to the middle hole i never thought about hooking it up off center. maybe thats not enough to matter, intresting
Phill,
I wish you'd earned your living as a mechanic as I did for a while.. You'd know when you are being ripped of.. Most alignments were simply a chance to sell parts like ball joints tie rod ends and such.. Mechanics used to sit there with a pry bar, a dial indicator and convince customers that it was time for new ball joints.
Just for information I've never paid for an alignment in my whole life. If needed I have the equipment to do them myself. MY currant pickup has 270,000 miles on it and has never had one.. as to the myth of better mileage and longer tire wear, Keep your tires properly inflated and you will get the 80,000 plus miles I get on my tires on my 4 wheel drive truck. (actually I could get much more but I quit and buy new as winter appraoches and I'm down near 5/32 of rubber)
As to mileage I get 19 MPG with my big V8 engine and 4 wheel drive so I don't think that's too bad..
As to the three holes, you aren't supposed to tow from an offset hole, it's there to switch balls.... Well I suppose that if you are towing a lite trailer it won't hurt, however anything approaching maximum load and you risk being forced to turn under the assemtric load of stopping..
Actually, I started work as an apprentise mechanic; my friends at the body-shop do a careful alignment check (the dealership does too, but the body-shop is free); time gets my tires before wear does (I've replaced the tires on my '96 Suburban once); bye.
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Phill Giles<!----><!---->
The Unionville Woodwright<!----><!---->
Do the math on the load vector and you'll realize that a few inches offset won't affect most trailers that can ride on a ball without a load-distributing hitch (class I). Big loads require a receiver hitch and weight transfer bars or a pintle, and that's a different equation.
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Phill Giles<!----><!---->
The Unionville Woodwright<!----><!---->
Phill,
I guess we are both saying basically the same thing, my perspective is pulling trailers at or above the tow vehicles rating. Seldom do I ever pull light trailers. Well I on occasion pull a light trailer I made for my MGTD but that is above the tow vehicles rating (since the MGTD was never rated to tow a trailer)..
Cute light little thing with wire wheels like my MG has and fenders shaped like an MGTD's
Poor MG had to tow this trailer to the races filled with tools, spares,,camping gear, and food. Race hard all weekend and then tow it all back home again.. More often than not won it's class doing it! Some of the most fun I've had vintage racing..
What is the easy way to back up a trailer that has surge brakes? or two easy ways?
BobChapman,
would you please do me a favor and read the post right ahead of the one you wrote?
I explained it there, ask if you can't find it..
Frenchy
In your opinion, would it be safe to load a unit (4000#) of 16ft long wood on a 12ft long tandem axle trailer? Specs on the trailer in question are at the link below.
http://tritank.com/CrossCountrySpecs/3t12.pdf
Brian"Good design is good business"<!----><!----><!---->
<!----><!----><!---->Florence<!----><!----> Schust Knoll (1917-)<!----><!---->
BMan
It's where the center of gravity winds up. Can you put 8 1/2 feet of the load ahrad of the centerline of the axle (s)? If not, then no it's not safe!
OK for the second time today, on separate threads at least, I'd advise you to get a folding utility trailer. http://search.ebay.com/folding-utility-trailer_W0QQfkrZ1QQfromZR8
I've owned two of these, over twenty-five years and they're really worth the $$. Folds up and rolls on casters. Takes up about one foot of floor space in the garage. Out of the way, safe from harm, but always ready. Takes the place of a pickup truck. Better than a pickup because it's low to the ground and easier to load. PIA to back up but no added insurance premium, very cheap tags. When you want to haul your ATV or a load of firewood, just unfold it and go.
Didn't know they existed. You have just solved one of my problems. Thanks.
Go to a local Harbor Freight and save the freight charges you saw on ebay.
http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=trailer
Do not think that these will get anywhere close to solving OP's need though.
Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately the sequence is: Finish Kitchen, build decks, fix fences, build garage/workshop, buy trailer.
If you're buying a trailer regardless...
I have a couple of open trailers, a 5 x 10 single axle, and a 6 x 12 tandem axle. The 6 x12 is easier to tow.
They were both relatively inexpensive to purchase.
If I were to buy another trailer, it would be enclosed. I've built a plywood enclosure over the 6 x 12 a couple of times for moving things long distances that did not need prying fingers. It was a pain to build both times and did not keep the weather out.
With that said, there's a pretty healthy jump in price from a 12 foot trailer to a 16 foot trailer.
I can see a 12 ft enclosed for furniture moves and general hauling for a DIY (like me). You have to be huge into ATV toys to justify the bigger ones.
Whatever length you get, I and my relatives/friends use my trailers several times a year. I'm willing to pay for the convenience of hooking up in 5 minutes to go get something with a trailer.
Shameless self-serving post alert! My ad below is posted in the classifieds...
I used the trailer when I moved from Boston to Vermont - it's amazing what you can fit in a 10ft'er. It's too small to be a 'workshop on wheels' but is great for for tool storage and job site organization and doesn't take up a huge amount of room - fits in a garage when not in use. As someone else mentioned the single axle can be quite choppy on pot-holed gravel roads.
The trailer: Late 2004 CarMate 6x10, 6ft interior height. Black - just professionally buffed and waxed.
Features:
- Side man door.
- Rear ramp door.
- Diamond plate package (all trim and wheel fenders).
- Rivetless siding - great look.
- 12v interior light.
- LED light package.
- Two side panel vents.
- Full size spare tire.
- Plywood interior.
- Rear parking jacks - stabilizes the trailer for use when not hitched to a vehicle.
I bought the trailer new, it was used as a tool trailer but is also big enough for motorcycle transport. It's in excellent shape and has been garaged in my barn. The tires are in great shape (about 5k miles) but there is some rust on the white wheels.
Due to the nature of my business (more small jobs these days) I've switched to a van and no longer need the trailer.
Paid just over $4,500 in November '04, asking $2,600. Visa/MC/Amex accepted. Delivery in southern VT, northern MA, Albany NY area possible.
-Norm
Edited 3/30/2007 7:30 am ET by VTNorm
Edited 3/30/2007 7:38 am ET by VTNorm
thanks for the posts. You guys have confirmed that I need to consider how much/ type of use.
These trailers are pretty steep- $2400 for the open 12ft equipment trailer, and $5100 for the enclosed 7x14 wedgenose. Both are quality, heavy duty tandem axle models. Each can handle some 6000#.
I have towed my share of miles, and had my share of problems as well. Learned a few lessons about tongue weight along the way. Those are stories for another post (an anonymous one!).
It sounds like I should just pay the shipping on the 1x6, and save some money with a smaller trailer.
"Good design is good business"
Florence Schust Knoll (1917-)
bman,
I can't speak to the "buy one or not" aspect, but I will say if you consider an enclosed trailer, make sure that it has enough head room to stand up in.
Std. size is usually 6' interior headroom, not enough for me (I'm 6'1"). I went to the next size up 6'6" so I can walk upright in it. Makes a big difference.
You can also park it in the backyard, design and build an addition on it and rent it out or live in it if the wife drives you crazy. Heck if she really drives you nuts, hitch up your new home and drive off into the new frontier.
You architects are pretty sharp, how about designing a mobile livable trailer unit that folds up to a 4 x 8 size for easy transportability?
Just a thought.
i never had an enclosed trailer, my boy bought 12 foot enclosed one, We use it every week i love it, If your tired just lock your stuff up and get it later, We found its easyer to move washers and fridges and stuff then our trucks, my boy puts his dirt bikes in it to. Im gonna take it hunting too. I have 4 trailers , Flatbed, dump, MC, but if i had to have one this is the one i would get
I have used a 4x8 enclosed utility trailer to cargo stuff back and forth to my vacation home for decades.I think you should rent the large trailers you need during constuction then buy a 4x8 for keeps.It's the best thing for transporting to your cabin for several reasons;you can pack it on an ongoing basis when at home with the materials as you purchase them saving time and storage space at home;when you load and unload in foul weather your belongings are kept dry;when your travelling your stuff is dry and clean when you arrive and secure when you stop for lunch;it doubles as a utility shed at the cabin to keep things dry and safe;you don't have to unpack everything when you arrive and you can just leave your tools in it until needed.Great for using as a tool tote in town.
Good advice from all. Thank you.
I have solved my lumber delivery issue by having it trucked to a local lumber yard, and they've agreed to run it up to the site for a small fee. That leaves me with the question of which trailer is more versatile- a dump or an enclosed, both 6x12 tandem axles.
I think I will get more use out of the enclosed trailer, for many of the reasons telephoneguy mentions. I am looking at a WellsCargo Roadforce for about $4200. They look well made, but after the advice of Frenchy I will check for square.
http://www.wellscargo.com
"Good design is good business"<!----><!----><!---->
<!----><!----><!---->Florence<!----><!----> Schust Knoll (1917-)<!----><!---->