How is drip edge handled when you have exposed rafter ends? Is it just omitted alltogether?
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I would cut or fold the drip edge so that it covers only a tad more than the decking.
You got gutters going up? if so, ya hardly see the de anyway, it just covers the edge of the decking.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
The secret to a long life is knowing when its time to go. M. Shocked
Gutters sure do defeat the asthetic reason for open rafter tails.
Considering that the majority of the time most of the detail is to the underside of the rafters as opposed to the ends, I'd disagree.
Extremely rare instances where I'd forego gutters to accomodate aesthetics.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Interesting. If you go look at historic mansions with beautiful cut rafters you don't see any gutters. Then again, if you had gutters you would not see beautiful cut rafters and I would not be bring such mansions to your attention. LOL!
Many of those historical mansions had integral gutter systems.....not the hanging gutters used most often today. If one has the money to maintain such systems, great. Not the case in too many of the homes of today. (Heck....just convincing folks they need to have their gutters cleaned a few times a year can prove fruitless.)
I do think that a copper half-round gutter often helps to draw the eye to what might otherwise be an overlooked aspect of roof detail.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
And then plum cuts are fine. You can't possibly be saying that there is any point of rounded rafter tails if you hang a gutter on them.
As for gutters, I think they such generally. Not to mention just fill up with snow, then partial melt, and then build an ice damn three feet up on the roof. If you have draining soils OR DRAIN TILE, forget the ugly crap. Landscaping? Most does just fine. A lawn does get a line drilled into it, but then again lawn right up to a foundation is about as interesting as . . . well . . . as interesting as gutters are as an archetiural statement.
JMO.
You can't possibly be saying that there is any point of rounded rafter tails if you hang a gutter on them.
You're asking for a personal preference. My personal preference wouldn't include a rounded rafter tail.
My personal preference also includes gutters. Again.....aesthetics be damned.
Gutters do much more than ward off a "line drilled" into it.
And.....when done properly, with the right materials, they are far from being "ugly crap". (Take a peek at some of Sphere's work.)
Gutters can be just as much adornment as rafter tails. Rounded or otherwise.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
they are far from being "ugly crap".
That is your opinion. It is interesting how you insist on being able to have one of your own, but don't like it when someone else has a different one. Pretty typical.
Pretty typical of what, exactly?
And who said I "don't like it" when someone has an opinion of their own?
I was merely offering my opinion, which differed from yours.
If anything, I would suggest it is you who has come off sounding as though he "didn't like" my expressing of opinions throughout the discussion.
Settle down Dudley. Because I challenge your assertions doesn't mean I don't think you're entitled to them.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
View Image
I offer this, not in an effort to dismiss your opinion....only as an example of what I am suggesting. I do not believe the exposed rafters aesthetic qualities are being compromised in any way by the gutter. I would also suggest, they may quite actually be enhanced.
Wish I had a wider shot....I'm sure the slate roof only increases the appeal.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Edited 1/19/2007 8:12 pm ET by JDRHI
Care to post that picture again? It does not come through on my computer. ???
Damn.....I posted that back in January......I hope I can find it again.
Where the hell you been? LOL
Democrats.The other white meat.
January? I don't think so. Where have I been? . . . ah . . . Australia. 90 degrees in Brisbane! Good to be back in the 40's and 50's.
Yep....January....check the date on my post with(out) the pic.
I'll keep lookin' for the photo in particular....but I think Bill is onto something.
90 degrees eh? Can't wait till those days get here.
45, windy, with flurries here today. Ugh.
Democrats.The other white meat.
He did not post a picture, but rathr a link to a place that had many pictures.Apparently they reorganized their website.http://www.bungalowgutterbracket.com/thebungalowgutte.htmlStart here and then start going through the photo album and other links..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I think you are right! we use 3x10 exposed rafter tails down here and then put a 2 x4 as a fascia board on the face of it and then attach copper gutters only where they are required to eliminate a bad run off area!
Tigger
Here is an exposed tail. The thread is "Small Addition". More pics and info in the thread. We used T&G SYP for the over hang. Historic District. The drip edge is just below the shingles. All wood was primed and back primed.
View Image
Chuck S
Pretty, but not what I am doing. My tails are a semi circle, like a popsycle stick, and will stand proud of the decking by the length of the radius.
No gutters
Edited 1/14/2007 6:36 pm ET by thetigger
No sweat. Typical style D eave edge only drops about an inch, so with a 3/4" sheathing, you can cut the detail of the tail to allow for the metal
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Pssssssst....
you were supposed to tell him to order it in copper from Grant..
end of whisper. over and out.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
The secret to a long life is knowing when its time to go. M. Shocked
Hijack Alert!!
Sorry folks, but on a similar topic.
I did exposed tails on my addition last fall and used 3/4 T&G ply that i used for subfloor. It got a good coat of oil primer prior to any tough weather with plans to paint in spring.
Should i be concerned about possible delamination in the future since i did not cover the plywood with another layer of material? It would be tough to go back and fill in the underside at this point because of all the roofing nails poking through.
Rookie mistake #37.
Thanks.
I really don't know. If it stays dry, it oughtta be fine. nails poking thru? eccch.
You could always use end nippers and snip them short enough to infill with something more attactive than painted ply wood, or fur it down, and nail up underskins to the furring.
I hope I am reading your query correctly.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
The secret to a long life is knowing when its time to go. M. Shocked
You read correctly.
i like your idea about furring down then maybe do some T&G pine or something.
Thanks for the input.
Tigger,
That's a good looking tail. You might be able to screw a drip edge to the sheathing. Use stainless screws. I can't tell from your sketch, but what type of sheathing will you use for the exposed area.
I used center matched T&G 1X4 Sel & Btr SYP. Tails and T&G were primed and back primed. Considered ACQ, but you have to wait many months before any finish can be applied.
Chuck S.live, work, build, ...better with wood
Tig look into, Atas Shingles--Advanta......they make a channel trim (Advanta HSA201) that is available painted to match their roof shingle, it looks much like a "J" channel for sheet rock. If you can't locate that stuff try using galvinized "J" channel sized to your sheathing, install with the long leg under the sheathing and the short leg on top, then install ice and water shield (I strongly recommend Grace brand) and be sure the ice and water is lapped over and sealed against the channel. Your design is going to invite a lot of rot , so be sure to seal the exposed tail very well and check it frequently for any damage or rot, it'll appear faster than you can imagine.
Geoff
"..."J" channel sized to your sheathing, install with the long leg under the sheathing and the short leg on top..."I think long leg on the bottom is likely to look bad from underneath. If installed with long leg on top, water will still drip off the lowest sharp edge on the unsupported spans and there should be plenty of overlap of the felt on top to prevent water intrusion without resorting to extra ice&water shield. Good caulking would be important where j-channel sits on top of the rafter tails to prevent water wicking up between sheathing and rafter.
BruceT
Bruce , my bad, you're right, It should have the long leg on top. The idea of the ice and water will ensure NO water gets under the "J" leg. I realize that the overhang somewhat negates the need for the I&W at the outer edge but even a 6-8" strip would help seal the drip from water intrusion, although I would install the I&W from the drip edge and run it up to a point 3' above the outside wall line.
Geoff
I&W run 3" above wall line; wow! Here in sunny SoCal we don't have to worry about ice. With my 32" eave overhang, that would be 6 feet of I&W - time to buy Grace stock.BruceT
Well, I don't know Bruce, the way the weather's been going this year you might need I&W soon, :)
Geoff
You got that right! Global cooling and all that stuff. When I was in school we were told that the jury was in, science was predicting the next ice age. Then there were shark attacks gone wild, bird flu! and silence, and now global warming. It is responsible for the floods in northern Australia, the draught in southern Australia, the increase in road kill in Australia, the Deficit, the national debt, potholes, the increase in identity thieft, increaed credit card solisitation mailings, and my foot fungus.
Have you seen this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttV2C6B8pU
In case you didn't see the video before the borg shut it down, here's another link:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4340135300469846467
Ah, that.
I've heard of Wusch's complaints. It's a little difficult for me to believe that he was "duped", but I haven't reviewed the program since I've heard the complaint, either. In my opinion, it's possible that he's simply backpedaling. too. Without seeing the unedited footage, it's hard to know what to believe.
However, it seems that every other participant is standing by their assertions.
I especially liked the clips from Patrick Moore, a founding member of Greenpeace.
Whatever.
Greenland used to be . . a . . well, green. How can that be? Well, in the medevil period it was a few degrees warmer than it is today. I realize that facts are a bitc, a problem, and a bother. But teh Norse grow grapes there. Another fact? Well, during this warm period the polarbears did not all drawn. Of course, no one whats to let you in on the other sceret little fact that polar bears can swim! Surprise!, and swim up to 200 miles.
Of course facts are a bear.
NASA? Well, obviously Oil laceys, right? They say there is ZERO atmospheric temperature changes and only surface temperature increase. Surpirse again, concrete in cities get hotter than teh dirt streets did 100 years ago.
Al Gore, says in his movie that sea levels will rise 20 feet. Interesting, even teh UN panel projects less than one foot. SO it is ok for AL GORE TO LIE about such things? Perhaps an agenda? AL Gore says Niarobi Kenya was build where it was too cold for malaria to exist, but now with warming we will have malaria in Niarobi. So again, since history tells us that malaria was rampet in Nirobi in the 1920's and 30"s is Al, stupid, ignorant or a lier? And does this not proof that temperatures were considerabley warmer during many times in teh past.
The list of lies, inconsistencye, etc. is very very long.
Buy the myths if you must, but don't whine about it when your std of living is cut in half by these thiefs in the years to come.
I was watching a tv show about granite countertops. and how there are made. during the ice age. most of united state was under water, but as the ice melted the ground rose (How that) so the sea bed is 200 foot down there. so if the ice melts and ground rise then how is global warming going raise the sea levels.i do live in Alabama, so my advice might be worthless
I don't think the ice age created granite. You must have misunderstood something. As for rising sea levels. The theory is that the ice sitting on top of Antartica will will melt and raise sea levels. Too bad that the theory ignores the FACT that most areas on the continent are actually cooler than in recent years. Some measurements are higher, most are lower. Pesky facts. And when you hear about this ice sheet breaking off and that ice sheet, no one is telling you that most of the ice sheet has actually extended tens of miles further into the ocean. As for Artic ice melting? Well, elementary school science will tell you that ice floats and as it melts there is no net increase in water levels.
DoRight,
I think Brownbagg is at least partially correct.
I, too, have read that continents have actually risen when large volumes of ice have melted away.
I don't recall disagreeing with that point.
The ice age did not great granite.
As for rising continents? Well, it is a fact that all land masses float on the softer if not molten rock below. As such the thicker or heavier the mass on top of the soft rock the lower it sinks.
I don't know about your climate--but in my climate-------- every house with exposed rafter tails I have seen-----where the tail protrudes beyond the decking like that--------------------- has massive end grain rot issues.
Personally--I would alter the design so that the decking protrudes PAST the tail.
Here -when many of these houses were built---exposed rafter tails with the eaves done in beadboard were popular( they are mostly all now obscured by later vinyl/aluminum soffit remuddlings)
Best wishes, Stephen
Absotively!
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
posilutely
I'm in Pensacola and rot is a major problem but I bought roughcut cyprus
for the tails and I think that will hold.
I'd like to use Azek bead under the sheething but yesterday I got a quote of $107/sheet for 5/8 x 4'x 10' and had to sit down. If I'm not careful these cottonpickin things are going to cost me the eaual of the main roof.
Unless you can flash it to shed water it's simply a poor design destined to rot. To just about anyone in the building industry, and many others simply relying on their common sense, it's a poor design regardless of how it looks.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
DEAR IDAHO - The reason I'm using cypress (my handler pointed out that Cyprus is in the Middle East ;-} ) is becuase it doesn't rot. Here in NW FL it lives in the swamp, half in/half out of water all the time. And I have a mill right down the road so I can get it for only one arm and no legs. However, I DO want some kind of drip edge, I think the 1" copper idea is good.
We don't use gutters here - foundations are slab or 24" crawl space - no basements - the soil is very sandy and water never collects around the house edges (except during hurricanes ). This of course, means you often have to be a bit creative around the front entry to keep from being dripped on. I used Japanese water chains on my last house at the front valleys and they worked beautifully.
Well...I sure sound like an asss. Stupid is as stupid does. Next time I'll try to read the details more carefully. It's hard to find anything wrong with using a wood like that. :-)
Best wishes.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
u sound fine Idaho. I don't post here to get compliments but real opinions. I just figured you didn't have many swamps in Idaho, allthough I may be wrong - I haven't got there yet.
The exposed cypress tails may not rot, but they will stain up pretty badly and look poor. If they're painted, the paint will fail quickly. If you use copper DE then you will have green streaks down the side of the tails.
Just personal opinion, but I'd tuck them back at least 1/2" under the expected drip line. Like I said, just opinion.
Ithaca, NY "10 square miles, surrounded by reality"
Sorry stray - but I can't agree - the main reason I'm using cypress instead of something like redwood is because I love the beautiful silver color it turns into if left completely alone. I think the old barns around here are stunning.
My only point was that with the "weathered look"....it will weather drastically different between the exposed and unexposed portions. It may grow algae, mold, check/crack etc... on the exposed part. Will you leave it bare? Poly? oil finish?
Again, just opinion...not telling you you're wrong to do it that way.
It may blend in real well if there are cedar shingles on the roof which weather to a similar grey.
Best wishes. You've obviously put a lot of though into the job.
Ithaca, NY "10 square miles, surrounded by reality"
Ok I see the problem - I'll back it under the Advantech even though it breaks my heart.BTW Is there anything I can put on this that will hasten the color change - like they do on copper?
Edited 1/20/2007 11:18 am ET by thetigger
I don't know about speeding to the weathered look. I'm not a "finishes" guy. There's probably some kind of pickling process that would approximate that. Maybe someone else will chime in with experience. You could experiment on a scrap with bleach, vinegar, what have you.
Maybe a trip to a local paint pro shop is in order (not a big-box "paint section").
Best of luck.Ithaca, NY "10 square miles, surrounded by reality"
>>>>>>>>I'll back it under the Advantech even though it breaks my heart.I've made copper caps for similar rafter tail situations. Just an idea.http://logancustomcopper.com
http://grantlogan.net/
It's like the whole world's walking pretty and you can't find no room to move. - the Boss
I married my cousin in Arkansas - I married two more when I got to Utah. - the Gourds
Your stuff is nifty, Grant - wish I lived closer.
tigger,
They do make a CWP (clear wood presarvative) that will hasten the weathed look, I believe Flood is one maker, and I'm sure there are others, read the can, it will say on it if that is one of the characteristics or not.
Geoff