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The exterior trim detail of my woodshop is 6/4″x8″ white pine freeze board with 6″ crown above it to the soffit. The gable end of the building is an 8×12 pitch, I currently have just enough of this 6″ crown to finish the project if I don’t mess it up. Does anyone know the mitre settings on the compound cut at the ridge? by the way I have a sliding 8″ hitachi saw.
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Jeff,
Check first to see if the crown mold is typical 38/52 degree crown ( that is, if it were used on a typical flat ceiling inside the house, it would lie at 38º away from plumb )
If it is, AND, you are planning to make the cuts with the crown mold lying FLAT on your compound slide saw, I would say that the angle ( the swing of the table ) is 27 3/4º, and that the bevel ( the blade tilt ) is 20º
Try it on a couple of pieces of 1x6 (or 1x4) scrap and check it for fit first. I think you'll like the results. You are also likely to enjoy the comments that will follow my post.
Ken
*thanks for the reply, I'm not sure my wife will approve of my working on christmas eve so I'll have to try it out next week. I'll keep you posted of the result.
*What a great chart!! I didn't even know they existed. My method of resolving an issue like this was to go to the guy who showed me the trade and pick his brain. I'll keep this chart in my notebook that I keep behind the seat of my truck. I'll look like a hero with my newfound knowledge.
*Joe,You requested an explanation.I'm saying that if you run 38/52 degree crown up the rake and the pitch is 8/12, that the angle is 27 3/4º and the bevel is 20º. The Dewalt chart shows that the angle is about 22 1/4º and the bevel is about 26º ( 112.6º lying approximately halfway between the 112 and 113)I'm saying that the angle is about 5 1/2º larger than the chart, and that the bevel is about 6º smaller.That chart is for cutting crown that lies level, not running up a rake. To arrive at the correct angle and bevel, use the two formulas that you show Joe, but instead of using 38º as the "CROWN ANGLE" in the formulas, use 52º instead. ( 90º - crown angle )If Jeff's crown mold turns out to be 45/45 degree crown mold, then the chart would work, since 90º - 45º = 45ºIf you have any small pieces of 38/52 crown lying around, you might want to take a few minutes to mock up the joint at the top and see which combination works.
*Joe,I'll stand by the numbers in my post.
*Joe,That statement is priceless. You should save it.
*Joe,I have no problem admitting I am wrong if indeed I am. But as I say, I'll stand by the numbers I posted.
*Joe,Time will tell.Merry Christmas to you also.
*Joe, Jeff,Here's an interesting photo
*Jeff, It sounds like you should be able to make a pretty good guess by eye. Rough cut the two gable pcs, hold them up at the right bed, and run a handsaw between them until they fit. The math only gets you close.
*I understand that the entire point of this thread is to cut the crown molding flat.. which I agree is one of the best and easiest ways to do it..if everything is perfect, there is no chance for error.. but why not just hold it against the miter saws fence(in this case right side up)set the saw for the degree of an 8 pitch (34degree angle)and cut it..sometimes there are small differences in the moldings profiles anyways(if you have multiple pieces) so you might have to fool around with it anyways......To everyone,have a Merry Christmas. Jason
*I can't remain silent any longer. This argument would go on for as long as the Florida election. I have put up a lot of crown moulding and keep a formulae in the lid of my calculator for just this situation. My formulae even allows for ANY degree of crown angle with the wall. Anyway, Joe Fusco's formulae is correct, but improperly applied as Mr. Drake is trying to explain. This formulae works for crown pivoting on a vertical plane,(such as turning a corner in a room}, when the crown pivots on a horizontal plane,{exactly the case here}, then as Mr. Drake says, you have to use the 90 - the crown angle. Mr. Drake is absolutely correct on this one. This is a brain twister and both sides produce good arguments. Unless one has the experience to know if Mr. Fusco is right, or if Mr. Drake is correct, then for all practical purposes, Jason's idea of placing the crown in the miterbox is the sure bet. Let the miterbox do the math and the cut. Its Jeff the one that loses should he side with the wrong party. Hey, everyone out there, MERRY CHRISTMAS.
*Joe,You've got to slow down a little and start reading my posts more accurately.I said that the ANGLE is 27 3/4º, and that the blade tilt, or BEVEL, is 20º. You've got it mocked up backwards. You're showing that I suggested a 20º ANGLE, and 27 3/4º BEVEL. REREAD MY POSTS.In addition, my guess is that when you did the mockup for your numbers, that you REVERSED the angle and the bevel also. This explains why it came out looking pretty good, because in actuality, if you did reverse them, those numbers would be pretty close to the correct numbers that I have been suggesting all along27 3/4º ANGLE ( swing of table), and 20º BEVEL ( blade tilt )
*Joe,I know it will help.Better redo the mockups correctly and show it to us again please. Then you'll see what my photo is all about.By the way, Joe, when I did that mockup, I was very careful to keep the spring angle at 38º for both your numbers and mine also. If you look at the photo again, you'll see some 38º wedges behind each piece.
*Joe: Your picture in post # 25 looks great. Hows come the crown is not up to the penciled x's in post # 26? Lets not leave any clues next time. It would give us less argument. With this being said, I rethought my original post immediately after I sent it, and hate to admit it but I errored big time. I was thinking of another situation. I do admit when I am wrong, and instead of looking forward to a nice turkey dinner, I am whoofing down some disgusting crow. WHOOF! YUK! I hate their tail feathers. I will close in saying that I am thick enough shinned to not turn this into personal childish attacks. I was wrong. Last post from me on this topic.
*Joe,With all due respect, I don't agree with the opinions you've expressed in your recent posts. I'm quite confident in the information that I have put forward here. If Jeff's crown mold is 38/52, and he cuts it at 27 3/4º angle, and 20º bevel, as I've suggested, he'll get a very good fit, as I already have demonstrated in my mockup photo.On the other hand, if he uses your figures, 22.36º angle, and 26º bevel, he'll get a gap of about 3/4" or more at the top of the joint.There's a good possibility that his crown in neither 38/52 or 45/45, which will of course result in a different angle and bevel. I'll be glad to provide him with the new angle and bevel, if that turns out to be the case. And they'll work very nicely also, Guaranteed.
*Joe,I believe I already have explained the formulas to you in this thread, if you'll look back and reread my posts.Remember your post #11?"Mr Drake, "That chart is for cutting crown that lies level, not running up a rake. To arrive at the correct angle and bevel, use the two formulas that you show Joe, but instead of using 38º as the "CROWN ANGLE" in the formulas, use 52º instead. ( 90º - crown angle ) This statement is priceless. I'm going to save this one. . ."I replied to that post that my statement is priceless and that you should save it.That should answer your question. The formulas that you show are correct for level crown mold, but when you go up the rake of a gable end, use the complement of the spring angle and you'll come up with the correct angle and bevel. ( 90º - 38º= 52º)The formulas that I have derived to predict crown molding angles are somewhat different than the ones you present, but are equivalent. Just use yours in the manner I suggested.
*Joe,Just use your formulas with the complement of the spring angle.It is equivalent to my formulas.
*I am getting several e-mails stating I was correct on my first post. Since I have taken both sides, I can't convince myself until I go out to my shop and make a mockup. I will post what I find out. My gut feeling is that Joe is right, but every e-mail to me is insisting that Ken is right. I am trying to enjoy Christmas today, and my wife keeps asking me why I am looking up at the ceiling making all kinds of twisted head jestures. I told her I am freakin loosing it. Its one of those things I would have bet my life on. Joe, you asked about what pencil marks. In post # 25 there are some x's that the top of the crown is lined up with. In post # 26, you definately do not have the crown at the x's, but somewhat lower. This obviously makes the gap that you are showing. I am going to have to just go out and do a mockup myself. I tell it like it is and if your figures are correct, I will post that just as fast if they are not. I can't win myself cause I have taken both sides. I really don't care what . . statement you slap me with. I actually find you humerous. You are on top of most of your facts, but no one knows it all. Every website I go to always has a few that get everyone rowed up. This sight is no exception.
*Joe,RE: you're reply to Stan Foster.I'm not saying that the Dewalt angles and bevels are wrong. I never said that. The table of values that you see in the DeWalt tables are accurate. The thing that you continue to not understand is that the values in the tables do not apply to rake mold at the top joinery at gable ends. Just how far do we have to go with this?Stan Foster's original reply to you was correct, and I think that you know it by now, if you've taken the time to CORRECTLY mockup the 38/52 crown mold as I suggested.27 3/4º ANGLE ( swing of table )20º BEVEL ( Blade Tilt )BTW Joe, that's very nice work that you show in your latest post, but as I have mentioned, and will continue to mention, the DEWALT TABLES DO NOT APPLY TO THIS SITUATION ( Rake Mold Cuts). Use your formulas and replace the "crown mold angle" with its complement.
*Joe,Contrary to your thoughts, I haven't needed "many hours to search for an answer", as you have suggested, in your previous post.I worked out the mathematics to predict the angles and bevels for these situations many years ago.I said it more than once in this thread, and I'll say it again. If the 6" crown mold that Jeff Chokreff has is 38/52 standard, the angle to swing the table is 27 3/4º, and the Blade tilt ( BEVEL) is 20º, on his 8" Hitachi slider, with the mold lying flat on the table.I can assure you, in addition, that if you will back off a little, that I will be more than happy to explain to you, why the DeWalt Tables do not apply, and why the formulas, as you have presented, actually DO apply, if you use the correct numbers ( the complements of the spring angle).
*Joe,It's still Christmas.Let's continue tomorrow.
*Joe,I have to agree with you on that. It has been Christmas ALL DAY. Usually, over the years, on Christmas Day, it's pretty much remained that way for 24 hours.Where you and I part company however, is with YOUR statement in YOUR previous post, "you just don't know the answer and are looking to buy some time."What, in 50 words or less, EXACTLY, do you want to know? I thought I already answered your questions.
*Joe,Jeff Chokreff asked a question, and I gave him an answer. He didn't ask for anything more. I ran a spreadsheet program for making these cuts for most common roof pitches using a compound miter saw with the crown mold lying flat. Anyone who thinks they might run into this situation in the future, might want to print it out for reference.
*Here's that Attachment opened.
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The exterior trim detail of my woodshop is 6/4"x8" white pine freeze board with 6" crown above it to the soffit. The gable end of the building is an 8x12 pitch, I currently have just enough of this 6" crown to finish the project if I don't mess it up. Does anyone know the mitre settings on the compound cut at the ridge? by the way I have a sliding 8" hitachi saw.