Fan needed to move air between floors
I have a 2 story plus basement saltbox. In the summer the thermostat is on the middle floor. The basement is always 6 degrees cooler and the upper floor is 6 degrees warmer. We have an open staircase that just allows cool air to fall to the basement and the warm air to rise to the bedrooms. I don’t want to enclose the stair case, so I realize that I will never get this perfect. The configuration works well in the winter when I get a wood stove cranking in the basement anyway.
What I want to do is get some kind of fan / blower and PVC pipes system together to blow cool air from the basement to the bedrooms above. I have a nice pipe chase in the back of the house with lots of extra room. Can anyone recommend what type of blower that I can use, and will this work? I would be moving the air 3 stories up. The thing should be quiet too. Thanks.
Replies
It will work ... but other options might work, too. Shut off registers in the basement in the summer ... force most of the air to the upper floor. Close off returns in the upper floor forcing air to go to the basement. This may very well be easier said than done, however.
If you have a chase, you can install the fan and certainly force air flows that support your theory. Just use a fan extracted from an HVAC boneyard of furnaces. You may not need high cfm ... the static pressure should be low, so even a small fan will move air relatively well. You should be able to find a 1500-3000 cfm furnace fan easy that a contractor may just give you. I'd give you one I have if you were close by.
This option may also sound easier said than done ... there may be issues with the chase ... is it open framing inside? dusty/dirty? There may be a code issue as well. Chases can be issues with the fire code. Do you have access inside the chase all the way up?
You might also consider ways of reducing the load upstairs. Insulate the attic. Also a big item is windows and window orientation to the sun. Wes/east glass is often unprotected. Consider low-e glass ... consider tinted and/or mirror finishes (PPG solar cool grey is pretty unassuming and has a low SHGC). It can be OK to mix glass types on the same house and even on the same side.
"Close off returns in the upper floor forcing air to go to the basement."Yes, ALL of the COLD AIR.Often the problem is that there are no or too few returns in the 2nd floor.And if the outlet registers are at floor level you can pump all the cold air in the world up them and it will stay at floor level and go down the stairs.All the time that above floor level you have a layer of nice hot air that set their and get hotter and hotter..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
if the registers are not blocked and the A/C fan is on high speed (not the heating speed), then you should get good air mixing on the second floor ... also assuming the ducts to the upper floor were sized properly .... many of these variables may not exist in the OP's situation and lacking any one will cause the problem.
There may be a solution associated w/ the existing HVAC system, but that doesn't address your question, really (not that posters here have any problem digressing at all).
My hvac guy suggested moving the ducts away from the windows and off of the floor. I was able to move one, and that helped. We keep the bed between this vent and the door. It helps. I can't move any in the other room.
If you do add ducts/fan I think you will find that it is much better to put the inlets HIGH in the 2nd floor and suck the hot air out..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Where would the air be sent?...back into the hvac system?.....or vented elsewhere?
Probably the best is the return of the furance.In fact the IF you have enough returns on the 2nd floor, but they are low I would move them up to the ceiling.I don't know how much air comminciation that you have between the basement and the rest of the house. Typically it is not much.And you typically both the HVAC outlets and returns are just a couple of registers cut in the ducts and really don't circulate the air.Because of the lack of good air circulation between the basement and first floor I don't think that the cool air "settles" to the basement. But rather that it does not have exposed walls and windows to pick up heat. Thus I don't think that they are a great source of "cold air". But this is all conjecture. Don't have any kidn of numbers or information to back it up..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
It will work ... but other options might work, too. Shut off registers in the basement in the summer ... force most of the air to the upper floor. Close off returns in the upper floor forcing air to go to the basement. This may very well be easier said than done, however. Already tried this with not much luck.
If you have a chase, you can install the fan and certainly force air flows that support your theory. Just use a fan extracted from an HVAC boneyard of furnaces. You may not need high cfm ... the static pressure should be low, so even a small fan will move air relatively well. You should be able to find a 1500-3000 cfm furnace fan easy that a contractor may just give you. I'd give you one I have if you were close by.
Great idea, I actually have an old furnace around. Could I reduce that down so that I could get the air traveling through a PVC pipe? I have room in the chase, but not enough for a full duct. I will have to look at that thing.
This option may also sound easier said than done ... there may be issues with the chase ... is it open framing inside? dusty/dirty? There may be a code issue as well. Chases can be issues with the fire code. Do you have access inside the chase all the way up? Good point, I'll have to look into the codes.
You might also consider ways of reducing the load upstairs. Insulate the attic. Also a big item is windows and window orientation to the sun. Wes/east glass is often unprotected. Consider low-e glass ... consider tinted and/or mirror finishes (PPG solar cool grey is pretty unassuming and has a low SHGC). It can be OK to mix glass types on the same house and even on the same side. The space is as well insulated as it can be. The exterior walls are 2x4 framed. The actic is well insulated. One thing that I didn't mention was that the bedrooms are only half of the floor plan. A great room on the second room with full height ceilings leads up to a balcony on the third floor. There are only a couple of double hung Anderson windows on the upper floor(low e glass). Basically the house sits on a hill side and gets pounded by the sun, from sun up to sun down. I'm a glazing contractor, so I'm aware of the glass options, but unfortuneatly Anderson windows do not facilitate glass replacement! In the masterbed room on the second floor I moved the windows from the west to the north....big difference. It's the most confortable room in the house. Thanks!
What do you mean you can't replace the glass in the windows?? What happens if a rock .. er baseball is thrown through it?? Should ALWAYS be able to replace glass panes in windows .... especially Anderson.
Pull the fan assembly out of the furnace. Have a sheet metal guy help you make the necessary transitions to ductwork ... rather than PVC. Don't restrict it too much or you may not get the airflow you need and/or you will increase velocity too much. Run e.g. 10-12" duct up there if you can get it in there. Seal it well. Have it go high in the room if you can to force air down through the rooms and into the lower levels.
Can you get lengths of rigid anything in this chase? Up from the basement?
Sounds like you are tracking well w/ the big picture ...
You're on the right track - this sock worked amazingly well to completely eliminate a 12 degree temperature variation; especially 'cuz it cost about $35 and some scrap.
View Image
Thread here - http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=98162.1
Forrest
not sure what we are looking at ....
Check out the link - that one is made to suck hot air off the second floor ceiling, and blow it down to the first floor slab level.
Would certainly work in reverse; my SIL just hasn't needed it that way yet.
Forrest
See if this will work if you dont have a chase.
Look at your frame plan . Pick a closet thats deep or wide you dont need all of it . Build a chase along a basement hopefully out of the way. Go for it .
Tim