Hey guys,
I have a client that has an old farmhouse, with aluminum siding and vinyl replacement windows. None of the windows function very well, and they are drafty. They want to make the windows work properly, stop the cold drafts, then strip the aluminum siding, and reside with Certanteed vinyl siding with styrofoam backing. Underneath the aluminum is some sort of wood claps, so I will need to use fanfold to get a flat surface to side over. They want to put housewrap on before we side, but I don’t know if I should put it under the fanfold, or over it. The new siding has a form fitting foam behind it. Not a regular vinyl siding. The stuff is about three times as expensive as the normal vinyl that everyone uses around here. I’ve only seen it in the store, never in real life. I wonder about the housewrap, and if anyone has ever installed this kind of siding before.
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Bump
it wouldn't take much to take the wood claps off while you are on it and put up 1/2" or 1" foam first and skip the fanfold. I'd strip to sheathing, Tyvek, then foam, then vinyl.
If donme carefully with taped joints, you could skip the tyvek too.
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I'd bet there was no sheathing on the old farm house, only clapboard.
really?
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It may depend on the age and area of the country, but I'm just finishing up my second 1880's farm house renovation. Both houses had clapboard siding over balloon framing (and post and beam type construction), no sheathing. The interior walls were lath and plaster. Sure makes you wonder how the were heated on a cold, windy night.
I've seen garages and sheds with no sheathing, but never a full sized house.I have lived in one with balloon and plaster with no insulation. Used six hundred gallons of oil, ten cords of wood, and was still cold all the time. Moved out as soon as I found another place.
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"I've seen garages and sheds with no sheathing, but never a full sized house."
I've seen it a couple of times. Fortunately it seems to be pretty rare.
They say a Woman's work is never done. Maybe women just neded to be a bit more organized ...
IMHO the foam backed vinyl siding is "snake oil" hype.
What good is the backer insulation if it is not continuous. Each 12'/6 piece has a 12'/6 foot crack with both ends open to allow for air infiltration.
Spend the money on a well placed, taped and flashed barrier that represents a more continuous house envelope.
.........Iron Helix
PS...I'm with Piffin for removing the existing clapboard, if sheathed. That would also allow you to do proper penetration flashings at the window and door replacements.
I can't even find anyone who has used the stuff in real life. It does come in 16' pieces though, a few less joints. The homeowner seems set on using the stuff, but they want a tight, not drafty house. I think I'll have to reinstall all the windows though. It takes both hands, and sometimes a shoulder to open some of them. Someone just got in a hurry to replace them, and didn't do it right. I'll try to adjust the worst one, and see what I can do.
Thanks all
Isn't the purpose of the foam backing to stiffen the siding so it doesn't warp and look so crappy in heat? Not really intended for an insulative barrier.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
One of the original purposes for the fanfoald was to even out the lay of the vinyl over existing clapboard as well as a buffer to the "vinyl rattle".
Fan fold can be a decent infiltration barrier (not a significant value as insulation) when applied correctly, taped at all seams with a quality builders tape and proper flashings at penetrations.
As usual, "the devil is in the details".......................Iron Helix
"As usual, "the devil is in the details"..."Tell me about it!I had a call to a modular home with vinyl siding poorly done. Some details on that were directing water INTO the house on an upper dormer. That made it run across the kitchen ceiling.I gave them a choice - two hours and two tubes of caulk or a week of replacing all the siding and maybe the housewrap."Well, let's try the cheaper version first."
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
LOL.....Penny Wise and Dollar Foolish! On all counts that have the word "double-wide attached to the discussion. There are some exceptions.
....................Iron Helix
Ya know, it isn't just the low dollar ones. This week and probably next, I am on rot repairs on a million dollar house. Mahogany ext casing trimed custom DH windows - but set with no flashing, no pans, poor caulk. The housewrap under it was shredded by lousy install. Some places where a guy was running a vycor wrap behind the casing and when he cut it off, sliced right through the underlying wrap, so water was running right in behind.
Sills with no bevel and no drip edge to lead water off were bleeding it back in under to the caulk joint that was all was trying to keep water out there, but failing 20% of the time. There is even a mystery window on the second floor I haven't got too yet, but the pattern so far hints that I'll be replacing a lot of siding on that dormer to get it right.It's a shame because this owner is decent, pays well and wanted it done right. somebody saw him coming or just hired any slob off the street to to the exterior for him.
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Look at it this way, without the ignorant, you wouldn't have the work>G<
Yeah, I thank God for the idjits in this world.
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I give up.
What is the meaning of "Fanfold"?
"Fanfold" is a hay bale like bundle (100 sq ft--?)of `3/16" thick foam sheet that unfolds like a grade schoolkids folded paper fan...hence the nick name.
The unfolded bundle, like an unfolded kids fan covers a lot of flat area. The fanfold is an under membrane for the vinyl siding to help turn water and give cushion over existing irregularities of the existing house exterior.
.............Iron Helix
To confuse the issue even further, it also can come in 1/4">G<
Ive worked for 35 years and have never put up one pc. of vinal siding but my fixer upper house in town is a perfect candidate. Id remove the clapboard if there were sheathing underneath but there isnt plus all the blown in insulation would fall out.
Does a flimsy pcs of fanfold really give enuf of a flat plane to nail the siding to without siding nails being sucked into to diffrent parts of the exposure? Does it just become a sensitive and caring nailer type thing.Do people screw v. siding up?Thought about putting furring strips up and foam in between but adds lots of detail pcs around windowns and trim.
Foam backing is just for rigidity.Hopefully it evens out that wrapped in saran wrap look thats made it bad looking on some jobs.
yep! Levels it out nice. I have installed many squares of ther stuff over the years. One thing, don't believe the nonsense about the thicker the better. I have installed stuff in the 80's of the thinnest siding known to man, still looks like it did when I installed it. Just, whatever you do, don't nail it tight!!
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.discconnect.com/FoamFly/Photos/fan-fold.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.discconnect.com/FoamFly/what.htm&h=480&w=640&sz=23&hl=en&start=9&um=1&usg=__IasLTI1FddhJnUg-G1iru3lhCAo=&tbnid=HXlC9YFZGTjG7M:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfanfold%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN
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assuming the doors and windows worked when they were first installed, the fact that they don't, now, seems to indicate that there is indeed, no, actual sheathing on the house, but just the claps....