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im a framing crewleader with a large builder. i’d like to share our framing system since i havent seen this method discussed here. using this system , my 3 man crew and myself can erect a 32’W X 54’L 2 story house in four days. i must add that we use panelized walls. here is our schedule for an average house , and the method we use
day 1: break down lumber package , set steel beams , install mudsill, set first floor joists , install t&g plywood , snap all wall lines.
day 2: tack “sleeper” plates on front, back, and bearing wall lines, frame 2nd floor deck directly on the “sleepers”, install t&g plywood, strategically cut the deck into 3 sections, snap wall lines for 2nd floor exterior only , tack “sleeper” plates on lines. layout the trusses on the “sleepers”.
day 3: sheat the roof with plywood and install lateral bracing, felt the roof, place a dbl southern yellow pine inside the roof at the ridge gable to gable ( used to lift the roof with a 4 point hookup ) , prepare braces and blocks for craning day 4
day 4 : crane arrives at 7am , roof is lifted off and set aside on the lot, 3 sections of 2nd floor deck are lifted off and set aside, first floor panels are set in place , 2nd floor deck is placed in position , 2nd floor walls are set in place , roof is lifted off the ground and set in place. the craning process takes 4-5 hours.
i enclosed some pics of the precraning stages. we get the house under roof 3 days faster using this “pancake” method since it practically eliminates climbing and walking on joists, and trusses. you will see in the pics, the 2nd floor deck between the roof and the 1st floor. any questions or comments ?
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here is another pic of the pre-crane stage
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yeh, pa, that 's cheatin.. good on ya!
did ya ask yur insurance auditor for a cheaper rate? since you don't have to do any nose bleed stuff anymore?
*FramerPa, I like it, the people next door must start to get a little nervous until day four comes around.Vince
*Wow! How many points does the crane lift (no. of cables) so that the roof assembly doesn't warp as it's lifted? How many people are needed inside (on ladders maybe?) to help position the roof as it's let down onto the plates? That was an impressive picture, Pa. DH
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as for the hookup of the roof , we use a 10' lead cable from the ball of the crane ,then we split off with 2 cables . each one has a 6ft. steel spreader attached to it. each end of the 2 spreaders has a 4' cable with a loop on each end. it goes down through the peak and wraps around the dbl beam we have inside the ridge, then hooks back to the spreader. (4 point hookup) 4th truss and 8th truss from each end. the roof lifts level as long as the hookup is correct. if the front of the roof has a LARGE turned gable , we use a chain from it , to the leader cable to counter balance the excess weight in the front of the roof. the only problem we have is sometimes breaking off a piece of subfascia that might sit on uneven ground. 4 guys inside in each corner to set the roof in place. but...if the top of the second floor isnt the same dimension as the first floor deck , we are screwed. we are very careful to build square and plumb.
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Hey Pa.,
Does it look kind of like this when it goes up, only on a larger scale.
Matt
*JTW, I am impressed with your creativity, but question whetehr it really saves time.I'm seeing a walkable roof, 32 feet wide. I thought your house was 54 feet?I've often thought about using some of your techniques, but have always rejected them because of the double handling issue.That said, here's one technque that I might employ, if I was inclined to use your method. I would tilt steeper roof decks that I was sheating, to level them up to a walkable pitch. Have you ever tried that after lacing them? Just curious.I am impressed with your efforts, even though they aren't cost effective, unless your getting a break on insurance (I'm quite sure you won't). Faming the lay-ons on the deck are a different story however...Keep up the good work.blue
*Hey Pa,Does OSHA know you have four men under that roof while the crane has it suspended in mid air? Seems like a fast method, but dangerous. Is it worth having four men crushed to death by a faulty cable breaking? I'll stick to walking the plates. That's dangerous enough for me.Ed. Williams
*Ed, I was glad to see your post 'cause I was beginning to wonder If I was the only one out there seeing trouble with this method.As a roofer I know a lot of guys with plenty of guts and muscles----but I would have trouble finding 4 guys dumb enough to stand under that thing!Didn't we have a thread here a few months ago about how dangerous it is to tilt up large wall sections by hand----that makes this system seem like a day at the beach.Of course I could easily be wrong about this since it is hardly my area of experience,and a lot of the stuff I regularly do might seem risky. Anybody else feel queesy contemplating this method?Good Luck All,Stephen
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Ok, the house is 54'long . take a closer look at the pic and you will see an additional 20ft. there is a contiguous garage with a step-down family room behind it. in the house pictured, i didnt crane those areas due to limited space on the lot to set another roof system on the ground. Let me clearify something....as the roof is being lifted off the ground, we are also on the ground. We stay out of the building until the roof is over the building and all 4 corners are " close" to where they should be. The roof is also no more than 3" above the top of the wall plates when we enter the building. Even if we lost a cable at this point , the roof would drop 3" and land on the top plates. i have framed a little over 400 homes using this method and so far never had an accident. other than an occasional missing ground plug on a cable , we are OSHA compliant all the way. I tend to think of a 100ft crane stick in the air as an osha flagdown , so we play it safe. There is much more in deth detail of the pre-crane and crane day stages but it would take 10 pages to make a detailed list of the procedure. I would be happy to speak with anyone interested in knowing more about this ([email protected]) It saves time , we build a number of the same models and im 3-4 days faster when i "whole -house" crane.
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Framer, your procedure sounds safe enough for me, but fail to see where the savings are.
Can you briefly tell me why you think you are saving so much time? I suspect our regional builfding differences might wash out some of the savings that benefit you.
Just curious.
blue
*Hey Pa,I'm glad to hear that. I feel a little better about the 3" drop. If that happened, I still would have to clean myself up after that. Have you ever stepped off one walk board that was resting on another while you weren't looking? You know , while you're thirty feet in the air? You get that tightness in your stomach and your head swims a little. We call it "falling an inch and a half you your death."Be safe,Ed. Williams
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Blue , here are a few ways we save time by "whole house" craning. Instead of placing the 2nd floor joists up on the first floor walls , we simply lay them in place and nail the deck together. its much faster to nail it together while standing on the 1st floor plywood. We can have it ready for plywood in 2 hours. The plywood gets stacked on the porch stoop, we can have 3 rows installed before the plywood would normally even be pushed up and stocked to the 2nd floor.The trusses are passed onto the deck at grade level , effortlessly. The same for the roof plywood. Roof plywood goes faster because there is no climbing in the trusses or passing the plywood up on the roof. Look at the subfascia , we nail it at waist high , standing on the ground...it beats standing on the wall and leaning over. Lastly , the roof is ONE lift with the crane as opposed to 18 individual truss lifts. it takes 2 hours to set 18 trusses with a crane and only 5 minutes to set the completed roof. Just my opinion , it has worked for years for me. Sure i frame conventionally when i have a bad lot , but it also takes longer.
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Framer Pa, Noticed the Ryan Homes logo on the house wrap. I remember seeing a project of their's in western PA (early 80's) and they were building them just the way you described. As I recall they went up quick. Wonder if any other companies employ that technique??
*Framer pa, Kudos to the men who developed this technique, I am impressed.I have studied any and all methods of improving effeciency as well as developing some on my own. I would be curious as to what you get to frame a house like this as I am in central pa. Generally, I don't have the space to use much of this technique as I frame large customs on wooded lots as a rule. We don't use panelized walls either, although I think we could in many circumstances. What is interesting is that I have not seen this technique in use in the tracts where it would be feasible. I agree somewhat with blue on the double handling issue, but for that type of house with typical pa framing methods I think that framing the roof closer to the ground is efficient. Tip the trusses by hand in what maybe 30 minutes? So whats the sub contract pay on that one?Tom
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tom ,
im got 7,200 to frame the one in the pic. it took a total of 9 days with a 4 man crew. our framing includes windows and doors also.
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What's that come out to on a $/per sq ft basis?
*Framer,Looks like about 2000-2200 s.f. plus garage, not a bad rate considering panelized walls. Interiors aren't preframed are they?What do you do on days 7,8,9, rest? The closest I've done to that recently was about 2400 s.f., 24x30 garage, 6x34 front hip porch, 2 bay bumpouts, one with octagon roof, 2 doghouse dormers above garage in bonus room. I set windows, doors (+any assembly), set stairs and landings(including a few basement walls), plus a few other items. This house went for right around 10k in under 350 hours.You guys are good and its seems being paid fair, best of luck to you.Tom
*Awright FramerPa, how long does it take you to set the trusses by hand, on the lower deck?To compare, I just set a house, very similar in size (2500) and the beams for the next job in two hours. All the plywood was staged (by the crane) up on the roof, so there is no "shoving roof ply time" to add. The time to sheet it will be equal, if I am on the first deck, or the third.Since we do all our cornice (1x6 frieze, 12" plywood soffit and 1x6 fascia over a 2x4 sub-fascia) work while the walls are laying down, there won't be any savings. I am curious about the 2nd floor joist being framed on the first floor though. Is this crane onsite at all times? Or do you rent it? If rented, what are the rates?I currently pay 80 per hour, four hour minimum. They are going to 90 per hour april 15th. blue
*Geez I'm glad I don't live in PA!You must not be paying the help much! My costs are close to 10k on the ones that I am doing in 425 to 450 hours. But I'm getting 22k to do them!Lets see Framer, you're close to 300 hours. If you pay out 20 per hour, and figure 1.25 overhead, theres not enough money to cover your expenses. If you are paying less for skilled labor, then you are asking your craftmen to work their trade for substandard living conditions.This life sucks! I want everyone in PA to double their prices immediately!blue
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im a framing crewleader with a large builder. i'd like to share our framing system since i havent seen this method discussed here. using this system , my 3 man crew and myself can erect a 32'W X 54'L 2 story house in four days. i must add that we use panelized walls. here is our schedule for an average house , and the method we use
day 1: break down lumber package , set steel beams , install mudsill, set first floor joists , install t&g plywood , snap all wall lines.
day 2: tack "sleeper" plates on front, back, and bearing wall lines, frame 2nd floor deck directly on the "sleepers", install t&g plywood, strategically cut the deck into 3 sections, snap wall lines for 2nd floor exterior only , tack "sleeper" plates on lines. layout the trusses on the "sleepers".
day 3: sheat the roof with plywood and install lateral bracing, felt the roof, place a dbl southern yellow pine inside the roof at the ridge gable to gable ( used to lift the roof with a 4 point hookup ) , prepare braces and blocks for craning day 4
day 4 : crane arrives at 7am , roof is lifted off and set aside on the lot, 3 sections of 2nd floor deck are lifted off and set aside, first floor panels are set in place , 2nd floor deck is placed in position , 2nd floor walls are set in place , roof is lifted off the ground and set in place. the craning process takes 4-5 hours.
i enclosed some pics of the precraning stages. we get the house under roof 3 days faster using this "pancake" method since it practically eliminates climbing and walking on joists, and trusses. you will see in the pics, the 2nd floor deck between the roof and the 1st floor. any questions or comments ?