Just started a small addition on boss’ house. I’m telling him about the new PT and how it eats fasteners. We then had some questions…
What about foundation bolts? Our yard still carries the same ol’ oily black steel ones. Aren’t they going to rust? If so, shouldn’t stainless be the standard then for foundation bolts?
I haven’t read the nail box, but we buy 50# boxes of 16d hot-dipped galvies. Do these have the 185 galvy rating that seems to be the minimum for PT.
T/F New PT formulations eat aluminium flashing?
Lastly, Do respectable framers shoot stainless through the sill when framing and then switch for the top plates and all other non-PT connections?
Thanks for all thoughts.
Replies
FAQ - been beat to death... I think the issue might be a bit overblown... Still I comply with new recomdations.
Anchor bolts - HD galvanized ones are starting to become more popular. Never seen a SS one. Around here (no earthquakes, hardly ever a tornadoe) anchor bolts weren't even required, except on garage stem walls until about 3 years ago. Also, the corrosion issue is less of a concern with larger diameter fasteners - although I'm not sure I understand this.
Nails - I think you got the wrong rating #; I think it is A153, but for your application, I wouldn't worry about it just as long as they are hot dipped. I think that this whole PT/Steel corrosion process is at least partially dependent on the presents of moisture, so for mudsils it shouldn't be as much of an issue since they should stay relatively dry. Around here shooters are readily available with the A153 rating - not sure about hand drives.
Auminum flashing - don't use it - it wasn't even adequate around the old PT and chemicals in masonry eats it too. Might be OK for roofs. Galvanized metal might be OK, but copper and heavy plastic (vinyl?) flashings are becomming increasing popular.
SS fasteners are very expensive. Maybe $350 a box for 16p nails. The day I see framers shooting SS nails for regular house framing (if not specifically required by code) will be the day I build a house for the Pope...
"Nails - I think you got the wrong rating #; I think it is A153, but for your application, I wouldn't worry about it just as long as they are hot dipped. I think that this whole PT/Steel corrosion process is at least partially dependent on the presents of moisture, so for mudsils it shouldn't be as much of an issue since they should stay relatively dry. Around here shooters are readily available with the A153 rating - not sure about hand drives."To similar, but different things.A153 is a standard for fastners.G185 is test level for connectors under A653 standard."• Hot-Dip Galvanized*
Fastener and hardware manufacturers have suggested the minimum Hot-Dip Galvanized requirements for use with treated wood should conform to the following ASTM Standards: ASTM-A153 (for Hot-Dip fastener products) and ASTM-A653 (Coating Designation G-185 for Hot-Dip connector and sheet products)."PS, Ufer grounds?
Yea, probably - but I'm just speaking from experience when purchasing gun nails.
Re the Ufer grounds, electrician was having a bad day, and his explanation was rather convoluted - at best - so I really did not find out. Did not get a chance to talk to the guys working for the power co, but as I said before, I don't consider what is on their side of the meter as part of a residential system anyway. I gotta talk to the the head electrician sometime within the next few days, so maybe I'll ask him and get a more direct answer.
Matt
Ryan,
They say it will eat through aluminum flashing.
Around here they have foundation bolts that are ACQ rated. They also have 3" cut nails that are ACQ rated.We always use double pt sills, so I also buy ACQ rated nails to nail through the floor joists into the PT sill. There's no need for stainless steel nails unless the plans called for it or the builder wanted it. Then they would have to pay for it. So respect the framer if he uses ACQ rated nails, Please............;-)
If you use two sills the first pt and the second doug fir (or whatever you use) then nail that second sill in with ACQ rated nails and your floor joists you can nail with regular bright commons.
Just curious - do you all use "doug fir" in NJ?
Matt
Just curious - do you all use "doug fir" in NJ?
I don't know if everyone uses doug fir for the entire house but every house or addition I've ever framed, every piece of lumber is Doug Fir. I've asked all the lumber yards that I deal with what everyone uses and they all say Doug Fir. Some guys use yellow pine for sheathing.
The only time I seen anything other than doug fir was when I framed in Cape Cod, they used all Hem Fir.
One house I framed about 12 years ago I told the builder to try my lumber yard and he said my lumber yard was about $900.00 higher than his. I asked him if he was comparing apples to apples and he said , yes. When the lumber showed up, I ordered about 200 sheats of sheathing and it was all 3 ply yellow pine. My lumberyrad quoted 4 ply fir cdx. The price difference was about 6.00 a sheat back then.
Joe Carola
Here in MA we frame with mostly SPF framing lumber. We get hem-fir for stock over 20'. The walls get 1/2" SYP, the roof gets 5/8" fir, and floors get 3/4" Advantek most of the time now (thankfully).
Funny, we're really not even that far away from each other and I can't say for certain that I've ever even seen a stick of doug-fir.
FWIW... that 3 ply SYP 1/2" is terrible stuff. We get mostly 4 ply, but occasionally I'll see a lift or two of 3 ply sneak in..... you can tell as soon as you touch it without even looking at the edges. If we have that stuff and happen to not be installing the housewrap on that particular job I make sure we nail the crap out of it around the window openings or it'll be murder trying to get the windows in once the rain gets to it.
The only time I ever see the 3 ply yellow pine garbage is from home depot. The lumber yard who sent the 3 ply yellow pine garbage was a small yard and from what I remember I think they got it from home depot because the scew stickers were on all the sheats.Every sheat was twisted and warped. I was so pissed because I sheathed that house and trying to sheath the roof with that twisted garbage was a joke. I remenber throwing sheats off the roof because when you drop the sheat down the one end would pop up and when I pushed it down the other end would pop up and so on.........When I framed in the Cape from what I remember we always used 2x8 floor joist with the spans no bigger than 12' and all the 2x4 precuts were 88" and I think all the door heights were 6'6". Maybe I'm wrong with the door height but this was 20 years ago.Joe Carola
Speaking of 3 ply, we decked a roof with the stuff today---gosh it took longer than expected (we had crappy clips too). My helper was cussin the stuff. I know I had dreams of OSB floating around upstairs ;-)Jason Pharez Construction
Framing & Exterior Remodeling
I'm amazed. Here in NC we only use "SPF" (Spruce-pine-fir) - I think it is mainly spruce, and SYP - southern yellow pine for framing...
My guess would have been that NJ woulda used the same, but really I have no idea.
Matt
I'm amazed. Here in NC we only use "SPF" (Spruce-pine-fir) - I think it is mainly spruce, and SYP - southern yellow pine for framing...
My guess would have been that NJ woulda used the same, but really I have no idea
We've always used Doug Fir. Maybe that's why when I see people saying that you can't span 2x10's 16' sounds crazy to me because I've framed tons of house with 2x10's at that span. They can probably span a little further than SPF.
The only Southern Yellow Pine I see is that 3 ply plywood garbage from Home Depot. that twisted and turns. I don't know if yours is 3 ply or not.
Joe Carola
I noticed a goof yesterday in my house. I tacked up a ledger for my floor joists using 16d nails. When I was going back over to check everything, I noticed that in one spot I accidentally used brights instead of HD galv (the ledger is tacked to an ACQ 2x10).
I ended up leaving the brights in place & just driving gavlanized nails in between. Is there any reason I would need to pull the brights out?