Just curious if anyone had a favorite brand of panel for a main electrical residential panel. Can’t say that I really pay attention to the brand, usually just looking for the full-sized ones. So in the case of a 200amp residential service, a 40 breaker center.
jt8
“Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree.” — Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Replies
Siemons...
better built with less cornors ct and busses are replaceable...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
John: I've been building for more than 40 years. I will only let Square D. QO be installed on my projects. I don't recommed the Homeline product of Square D. The QO is the Cadillac of all service panels. Best Regards, Dale Buchanan
What's the difference of the QO over the regular square D's?
jt8
"Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Qo is the regular...
Homeline is the they cut corners line..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Qo is the regular...
Homeline is the they cut corners line..
So is the cheaper, Homeline a 'new' model? I've been accused of not being observant, but I've always just gone in and gotten 40/40 full sized panels that took 'standard' breakers. So was I probably buying QO and didn't realize it?
jt8
"Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
yup...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
But I don't remember breakers starting @ $10/ea. Seems like they used to be $5.
jt8
"Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Siemons still are..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I'll probably have to run by US Electric and see what they carry. Lowes carries GE and some other brand. Menards has junky ones and maybe 1 Square D panel.
Majority is going to rule on this topic and I'll try to find a Square D QO or Siemens full sized 40/40 200A panel.
Are you saying the Siemens breakers still start around $5? Are those QO, or do they have their own standard?
jt8
"Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Lowes carries the Siemons..
The buss bars are copper and replaceable in the Siemons..
the Square D had little melted tabs to hold the bus bars and the buss bars appear to be plated aluminum...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Lowes carries the Siemons..
The first Lowes I checked was GE and CH. I can try the other one.
jt8
"Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
I prefer the GE over the Square D - I think the quality is better, and the cost is more reasonable.
More importantly, the GE mains are enclosed - some of the Square D boxes expose the main, inside the box. A slip of the screwdriver and you are arc welding :-)
"So is the cheaper, Homeline a 'new' model? I've been accused of not being observant, but I've always just gone in and gotten 40/40 full sized panels that took 'standard' breakers. So was I probably buying QO and didn't realize it?"No, the QO only takes propitory QO breakers.It is the homeline that will take 'standard' breakers.But the Homeline is newer, I think.
Home line is uses the same configuration as the other "generic" panels by GE and CH (I forgot which series) and I think others.They is not agreed on standard, but many breakers of one brand will interchange with another in those clases.QO is a completely different desgin.That said I have heard that the internals of the HO breaker are identical to the QO breakers.
Another vote for Square D QO series. Avoid the Homeline.
Still another vote for QO.
Square D, hands down!
Square D, QO line. In all reality, not that much more money, unless your doing 20+ homes at a time, then it adds up. This is probably the reason why elecrticians us the cheaper stuff. They can loose a large job by a $100. Quantity over quality
That's my vote
Square D QO for sure...I've installed a ton of square D products and they work great!
Chris
Siemens first choice followed by Square D.
Local elec. swears by Cutler Hammer. He just put a 200A. . . umm, I think 38/38 (maybe 42/42)? slot, in my new house. Every slot is rated for the little tandem breakers. Not using any of those, but with all the circuits in, we only have 3 open slots. Nice to know that we actually have more if we need it.
Side note: I sell industrial automation. CH, Siemens, and SquareD are all in that market, too. I hate seeing that competitor name in my house, but what can you do? :-
My company sells ABB (among others) and I don't think they have a US version of a panel. The euro style home panels and are very interesting. They use the same industrail, DIN rail mount mini breakers as we use in industrial control panels. You also put in your own "buss bars" to jumper between them. They are much smaller than US panels, and one version had a picture frame built into the front cover to hide it if mounted in the living areas.
But I digress. . . .
Adventures in Home Building
An online journal covering the preparation and construction of our new home.
Compact is good for some things but not a panel necesarly (Rez fix my spelling) You run into wire fill capacity issues. I like a lot of room for nice neat wiring and space for heat to disipate.
My vote is tied between Siemens and Square D snap in or bolt in. not homeline.
Pardon my fat fingers.
http://www.hay98.com/
Siemens or Square D QO. I hate hate hate the Bulldog Pushmatic I have in my house now. F^%#$ng breakers are so expensive. Putting on a sub soon, just don't want to swing $ for a full 200A replacement.
Price a new panel and then comre it to the price of a new panel. I did that with the Zinsco panel I had in my house. It cost me the price of two breakers for the panel and materials.
Then I turned around and sold some of the old Zinsco breakers. So it was free in the long run.
Pardon my fat fingers.
http://www.hay98.com/
Compact is good for some things but not a panel necesarly (Rez fix my spelling) You run into wire fill capacity issues.
That's what I think too. I try to get the biggest dang panel I can find for a given AMP.
The last two I just had an electrician come in and replace what was there. Didn't give him any guidance. On the current one, I've got the wall wide open (and actually framed it as a 2x6 wall just to have more room) and am going to put in the biggest dang 200A panel I can find.
I can still remember someone posting pics a while back of some guy who practically made artwork out of his wiring...everything perfectly arranged. Found it very inspiring (even if I could never emulate it).jt8
"Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
There is a guy around here, Wolf Electric, who claims to single-handedly be trying to be bringing craftsmanship back into the trades. The crew I worked for built a Ag building/garage on his property, and I walked in after the other trades went through. I was blown away by his wiring...And he saifd it was his "B" team, and that he would go back through to make it better...
Yea I remember that. It was inspiring.
Pardon my fat fingers.
http://www.hay98.com/
BINGO! Hadn't realized it had been a whole year.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=65679.1
View Image
View Image
View Image
View Image
Don't think I need quite that much wiring in my current project. I suspect additional pictures would clarify that he didn't just have those cables right on top of each other (and therefore not an overheating issue)jt8
"Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Thanks man. I did the smart thing this time and saved em to my picture folder.
Pardon my fat fingers.
http://www.hay98.com/
Thanks man. I did the smart thing this time and saved em to my picture folder.
That's how I found the thread. Searched for "harold1.jpg" after finding maddog3_Harold1.JPG pic in my archive.
jt8
"Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
go here
http://electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum5/HTML/001099.html..if you want to....there are a few more pics from that job.
incidentally, the photograher is the EI for that job.
.
.
.Wer ist jetzt der Idiot
?
That's cool, they have added a few pics since I looked at it last year. How about that backlit stained glass!!
View Imagejt8
"Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
OMG..that is stunning. I am a low-voltage guy by trade and I thought we get carried away with our cable artistry, but that is out of control. The crappy part about what we do is that within 1 day to 6 months, some hack from Comcast or Qwest comes in and cooks up a spaghetti dinner over/in/around my work.We just had a particularly nice looking job, all in black Cat6 and beautiful to the customers specs, that I wanted to take some pics of for a "job portfolio" of sorts. One day after we finished I went back to take some shots and to fix up some loose ends, a Qwest monkey had come in and created a few extra hours of work for me. The guy managed to tangle his phone service lines into some of the data cabling and labeled basically nothing. The customer was furious but could not get Qwest to pay for my time. They claimed that their tech are supposed to "get stuff working" and that spending hours making things look pretty doesn't benefit anyone (b as in b, s as in s)I've got some people to embarrass with those pictures.
Edited 11/14/2006 3:21 pm by pill128
......' They claimed that their tech are supposed to "get stuff working" and that spending hours making things look pretty doesn't benefit anyone (b as in b, s as in s)..."especially Qwest....how do you expect them to keep up with their workorders ? its plain that Qwest and others spend $0 on any sort of standards training.
.
.
.Wer ist jetzt der Idiot
?
yeah and then when it comes times to make a minor change to someones system, I am stuck sorting out a rats nest and handing them a bill 2-3 times what a job done to a "clean" install would cost.
As for Comcast and their standards, I met a young (20 something) guy at a Subway that worked for them. Started a conversation with him and asked what they pay. He gets a big smile on his face and tells me $12/hour, like he's rich or something. Scares the crap out of me that you got tech's making that little ching climbing poles and drilling holes in customers houses, with the only thought on their mind is how many other installs that gotta get done that day before they can make it home to their XBox 360. And these guys are supposed to understand grounding/bonding...give me a break.
As much as i hate more government intervention in our lives, the state of Minnesota has recognized how poor most of these phone/satelite/cable installers are and have created a title called a Power Limited Technician. It is a reasonibly difficult NEC test, based mostly on Art. 800. Though, I my opinion its not strict enough, as the laws do not require all techs to be certified (it is similar to the 'shop master' structure). Don't think that I am getting a big head about what I do, I know I'm not going to kill anyone or burn down a building if a cat 5 line in installed wrong, but these data/voice systems are so crucial to basically all business in this day and age, that customers should be getting a high quality install.
There are two things to consider. First, you want a good quality panel. Second, you want something that has a large enough installed base that breakers will continue to be available at a reasonable price for the life of the installation. That narrows it down to QO, the most widely used good one.
-- J.S.
Recently put in a Siemens at a home I plan to retire to. My first total wiring job. Had to remodel and add a new panel to my existing home. The electrician friend that was "advising" me picked out a Square D QO. I cost over twice as much as the Siemens and breakers are also twice as much. I think both are excellent panels. The Siemens buss bar is copper and the SD is tinned copper. Stay away from anything else. I think the inspector liked the SD panel.
OK, I'll be the lone guy here.
My favorite:
Cutler-Hammer CH series.
I have been installing them for 30 years.
Not the BR series, which to me is Bryant.
Nothing wrong with Square D QO series, just think beige is nicer than gray. And bolt in breakers are wayyyy over the top for residential work. Ever see the prices for those? I use these for industrial three phase panels.
But the "generator transfer switch" Chinese puzzle accessory for the QO panels is quite nice and a cheap way to get a transfer switch.
CH series 200 amp 40 pole space box can be had in a "kit" with some breakers for dollar savings at the big box stores. I also see within 50 miles of Fredericksburg, VA that the price of CH115, CH120 breakers varies by as much as $2 at Lowes and HD. More North is cheaper. Go figure....
Frank DuVal
You can never make something foolproof because fools are so ingenious.