“Why?” as in “Why not something more impermiable and permanent?”
I was just reading the latest issue of JLC, reading Jim Bennette’s article on reroofing, nicely written – goes into detail about why he uses some of th materials he does.
But one thing stuck me in the eye: Instead of using 30lb felt paper, he uses CertainTeed Roofers Select felt paper.
Felt paper?
There was a brief tangent discussion I had on another thread here about using felt vs. synthetic underlayment, and the argument was that since it is covered over so fast, you don’t need anything better than felt paper. Since covering it right away negated some of the advantages of synthetic, there would be no way to sell it to a client. I countered that underlayment protects not just current roofs, but every change made to a roof by other carps and installers who may not do the details as well, therefore with a more permanent and impervious underlayment you are better protected in the future.
Obviously felt is still used alot on roofs – why hasn’t synthetic taken over?
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Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
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Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
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underlayment protects not just current roofs, but every change made to a roof by other carps and installers
Ummm, you ever see what the felt (or other underlayment) on a roof looks like after we get through stripping the shingles off it with shovels?
Swiss cheese comes to mind....
I don't think I've ever left the old underlayment in place; it always gets replaced with new.
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I was thinking about the other things that happen after that perfect roof gets put up. Things like plumbers cutting in new stacks, the Dish installer mounting an antenna, carps replacing termite ridden fascia. A roof has a long life, but a house can go though many changes. Changes made by people with a variety of skill levels. I would think you would want to use an extra durable material for the second line of defense, rather than something like, well, cheese.
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
Obviously felt is still used alot on roofs - why hasn't synthetic taken over?
1) It costs more
2) Lots of roofers like 'tried and true'
IF a new roof is getting shingled immediately, then 15# felt is all that is necessary.
But in my experience, that is a very rare occourance.
Back in my days as a roofing sub, we would dryin immediately after the sheathing was on, then go back after the carps had finished the fascia etc and the plumber had his stacks roughed in, and the supplier had stocked the roof. Anywhere from three days to three weeks.
The roofers who felt and shingle the same day on new work have done a dis-service by leaving the building open to rain for all that time which is not good for the subfloors etc.
If you re-roof like Hazlett so that a roof section is torn off and recovered the same day, never leaving it open, the same applies to felt use.
Where the synthetics work well for me is additions or re-roofs where the top may be exposed for more than a couple of days and new work. The TRG II is fantastic at resisting the damage carpenters can do to an underlayment while running trim
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I use titanium UDL because it is physically safer for me to work on it----- won't tear loose when I climb/walk on it----AND because it is faster to install. cost wise------- it is about the same-maybe less than 30# felt.----and factoring in the safety and labor savings---- it's cheaper than 15# felt. hand a customer a piece of 15# felt and a piece of titanium----ask them to tear each of them. they CAN't Tear the titanium--- end of discussion.
stephen
That's what I have - and use. It was more expsnsive than felt.
Jeff
It was more expsnsive than felt.
Material cost, yes. Total installed cost about the same. Much less labor with the synthetics. http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
I often wonder when looking at the whole job price what it the difference between choosing 15# felt vs. a "more expensive" roof underlayment. A percent? Or a fraction of a percent? The real costs of a roofing project are in the removal of the old roofing (when applicable) and in the cost of the finish material chosen and the installation of that material. Or is there something about the cost/benefit ratio of the underlayment material that I am clueless about?
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what it the difference between choosing 15# felt vs. a "more expensive" roof underlayment.
Not much in the big picture. http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Much less labor with the synthetics>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I am a little dense today, why?
Wider material, fewer fasteners needed, never blows and rips.
More sq. per roll too, fewer trips up the ladder toting a roll.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Everybody else about covered it:
Less trips packing it (1 roll vs 5 rolls for #30 felt.)
About half the time spent nailing and about half the nails.
Less backing up to patch tears.
Less end lapping.
I charge a couple of dollars a sq less for Titanium than I do #30 felt. I don't use #15 except on very rare occasions.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
The labor savings and the wind resistence is what appeals mos to me, but it5 is safer walking too.
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but it5 is safer walking too.
Which adds to a better bottom line.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Yep
Man works faster when he feels safer.
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Um... Man works faster when wife harangues him.
don't bet on it...
naggers get last slot...
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Um... Man works faster when wife harangues him.
That's not when he does his best work, though.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Not me.I duck and cover when starts firing
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Isn't Titanium the white plastic with traction nodules? I just could not get over the ingrained law of never walking on wet plastic! I mean it, one test foot at a time. White knuckles and decompression beer after work. I know it works, but there is no way I'll ever feel safe.
It lasts a LONG time too..I had some on my funky ridge ( did you see my new work?) for 3+ years..LOL. Yeah, it was ratty, but still there long after the 30lb gave up the ghost.
Look in photos "Sphere-a-mason " for latest shot of the house work. The pics won't mess ya up too long. (G)Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Been meaning to look at that thread, but haven't been at BT more than twenty minutes at a whack for over a week now, popinpopout. Lots going on personal life...
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I'll cut to the chase ( HAHAHAHAHA get it?) OK..
Here it is now..a few touches left to do when the $$$ and weather play along nice.
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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something looks almost oriental there shogan do san
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I've never had any experience with a synthetic. Does it hold a chalk line well? I like to use lots of lines.... Other than cost, that would be my only concern. I don't do alot of roofs, so I've never had the opportunity to work with it.
. Does it hold a chalk line well?
Yup.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
is that the original roof painted?
Yup. I wire brushed the whole thing, then with an 8" wide masonry brush painted on the silver fibered coating.
That roof was put on around 1905 I'm told.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Looks great!
"I use titanium UDL because it is physically safer for me to work on it----- won't tear loose when I climb/walk on it"
That can save a lot of time running your first few rows. I don't have to work off a ladder when I'm not afraid of walking on the underlayment.