Have an excuse to buy the guide saw from Festool (ripping tons of Azek on site from 4×8 sheets) and need to know whether to buy the smaller 6.25 or larger 7.5″ bladed versions. Also, anyone know where these can be found at a discount? (I know, quality is expensive…)
Thanks
Replies
Nick...
Not to reignite the "F vs E" battle again but before you buy, you should (IMHO) consider the Eurekazone SmartGuide. I have two of them and get phenomenal results with any of several CS I already owned.
http://www.eurekazone.com
PaulB
I'll check into it, but I've tried out the Festool and have salivated for it since. Thanks.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
Festool's nice, no argument there. I've used it, and decided that the SmartGuide gave me a lot more bang for a lot less buck. Again, not trying to reignite a hot issue but if you check into it and have any questions I'd be happy to help out. I love mine and use it with both a PC circ saw (with flawless cut quality) and the router guide system (equally awesome).
PaulB
Nick,
I think you'll find Festool controls prices and distribution VERY tightly. It's not likely you'll find sales out there. They do have a thing once or twice a year where they sell "demos" at a fairly substantial discount. I think your best best is to actually call their headquarters in Goleta, CA and talk to them.
You could try ebay...
Good luck,
Kit
The festool owners group over in yahoo did a poll of what festool tools people own and about 35 owned the 6 1/2 and only 5 or 8 owned the 7 1/2. The major advantage with the festool for cutting the azek will be the dust collection, that azek is absolutely horrible to breath and it sticks to your clothes and skin.
Festool does not discount their tools at all. The only think you could hope for is a demo model from one of the dealers and those are rare and gone quickly. The dealers are also not allowed to stock any of the tools, only the accessories. Go to festools website and that is what you will pay for the tool. You can order it over the web or at a dealer but either way it will be shipped to you from either NJ or CA depending on where you live. The shipping is very quick, only a few days.
My local woodcraft dealer will put your order into their monthly or bi monthly festool order and not charge you shipping if you don't mind the wait. But if you want it right away then you'll pay for the tool and a shipping charge (and sales tax if they have a dealer in your state and your state has a sales tax). I also noticed that all their tools went up $15 about 3 weeks ago, most likely a result of the valuation of the dollar versus the euro.
http://WWW.festool-usa.com
My McFeeleys catalogue had prices lower than Festools site by about 15-20 bucks; now I know why, older catalogue, I guess. Thanks.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
Call them. It's a rare occurrance, but I got a barely at all used rotex for something like 20% off, it just came in from a show. If they have one sitting there, you're in luck. If not, oh well. Grab the card.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
nick.... i set out to buy the festool and bought the ez instead...
View Image
set up my 7 1/4 for the first one.. bought a second set and an 8 1/4 saw for 2x material..
also bought the smart table and ordered the router setup..
since i already have a Fein auto-vac i can set up any tool i have that has a dust port..
like my PC skill saw
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 5/21/2005 9:27 pm ET by Mike Smith
Edited 5/21/2005 9:28 pm ET by Mike Smith
MikeHve you caught this thread on ventted attics and the commentss from Ray Moore about even dense cels settling. http://forums.prospero.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=57947.72
thanks for the link , bill...
interesting guy... sounds like the usual opinionated dude that hangs out here..
no one we know like that , huh ?
i'd dispute his settling claims..
and his solutions seem to have more to do with hot climates than cold
also.. i'd agree with him on the combustiability of foams and failure to protect them from combustion sources..
but .. his contention that uninsulated drywall survives better in a fire than insulated begs the question.. what type of insulation is involved?.. fiberglass will melt.. cells won't..
i have built small buildings just for the purpose of burning them..
the fastest ones to completely disappear were the uninsulated ones.. next wrre the fiberglass.. the cellulose ones always survived the tests because the audience ( usually firemarshalls & firemen ) got tired of standing around watching the cellulose buildings smolder...
anyways.. my contention is that as long as you do some research and thingk thru a strategy to condition your structure, you will come up with better solutions..
i think lsituburek has done great things in getting people to think about these thingsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
So the EZ system won't cut thru 2x with a 7.25 saw? I believe even the smaller Festool will cut thru 2x material, even at 45 degrees, no?
One aspect that I like about the EZ system is versatility, having the ability to use a router.
Still not sure which way I'll go. Thanks, tho.
BTW, you need a younger model in your pics : )
I never met a tool I didn't like!
Nick,
You can use the festool guide system with their router, it is a fine machine also.
james
One thing about the EZ system is that the guide rail is stiff, as can be seen from the pics. The Festool rail is better able to conform to the surface of sheet material which is rarely flat
John
My main use for my two SmartGuides is with sheet goods, and never had a problem conforming to any material or thickness. Besides, who wants a guide rail that is easily bent?
Paul. This is from another Forum. If you look at the pictures the EZ Smart is very-very- rigit and the same time very-very- flexible. Look at the antichip edges. John is right about flexability. But the same time you need strength for many other reasons.
YCF DinoView Image
View Image
Edited 5/22/2005 4:12 pm ET by YCFriend
Edited 5/22/2005 4:13 pm ET by YCFriend
Besides, who wants a guide rail that is easily bent?
I didn't say that, I said it was flexible. It easily conforms to the surface on which it is placed, and then can be used to cut a dead straight line to a uniform depth.
If a guide rail is too stiff it will tend to form a bridge over the valleys in the material, and if the saw is set to cut to 1mm more than the thickness of the material it won't cut all the way through to the other side where the guide rail isn't lying flat to the surface.
The Festool rail is plenty stiff in the other plane
John
I understand John, and I shouldn't have paraphrased that you meant it was easily bent. But I stand by my experience, which is that I have cut thin flexible materials like 1/4 ply, and plexi and have never had a conformity problem.
Hi John.
Good point there.
If you only use the guide rail for panels, you need the flexibility. And as you say the pictures show a strong guide rail but with very flexible antichip edges.
Is very important to apply pressure to the wood and keep it from splintering. (lifting-up) And is good to apply pressure on both sides of the blade.
View ImageAnti Chip Insert AC-2Overview:The AC-2 works with the EZ Smart Guide System to provide antichip protection on the outside of the cut. This is another first in woodworking history. Now, you can have clean cuts on both sides of the blade with your EZ Smart Guide System
But if you like to use the same guide rail for solid and crooked lumber, you need the rigidity. And twin clamping tracks for narrow stock.
1. Warped plank View Image
2. Clamp itView Image
3. flip it over View Image
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Edited 5/22/2005 4:40 pm ET by YCFriend
do you offer an instructional video?
Hi Huck.
Yes. we have one, but not the best. This week we're making a new one to include the router.
All instructions come with it.
Thanks.
YCF dino
Edited 5/23/2005 1:54 am ET by YCFriend
About rigidity.
the guide rail can float and become its own material support system. In the last picture you will notice that the guide is Dead Straight and up in the air. If you need to cut long lumber, you don't need a long table. The Ez lifts and holds the lumber with the smart clamps. The Smart clamps become the legs for the table, that in this case is the guide rail.
From the web site.
The Self Aligning Connectors
View ImageWhen only one self aligned connector can do the job, and two is even better. We at eurekazone believe that a third connector can only help. So here you have another first from Eurekazone.Step 1: Put a connector in the center and tighten it. (lightly)
View ImageSmall things like that is what makes the EZ Smart Better than any other guide system regardless of cost. That's why we don't make 8ft, 12ft, or 16ft guide sections. Step 2: insert the other two connectors halfway in and tighten them lightly
View ImageWith three self aligned connectors, there is no need for you to buy all different sizes, but at the same time, you can extend your guide as long as you need it and still be portable.Step 3: put the two guides together (all the way) and tighten the remaining screws
View ImageIf you accidentally drop the guide, the connectors become the crush zone, absorbing the impact, so the only damage that may occur, would be on the connectors which can easily be straightened or replaced.
Edited 5/23/2005 2:26 am ET by YCFriend
Nop. The Ez don't cut thru a 2x4. Is missing by 1/16"
The best solution for this, is to go for an 8-1/4 saw.
We're testing 7-1/2" blades, but nothing good so far.
But if you need to cut 2x materials you can use the EZ as an edge guide.
Remove the antichip edge. (very-EZ) and use the edge of the guide rail.
With the narrowest clamping capacity of the EZ you can cut 2-1/2" narrow stock as an edge guide and 1/2" narrow stock regularly.
but if you need to cut 2" materials every other day, the 8-1/4" Bosch is a good tool. Or go for the big Festool. In case you need some of the Ez features in the future.
Going with a guide rail system is much better than pushing the wood.
YCF dino
Edited 5/22/2005 4:56 pm ET by YCFriend
I tried them both at a Festool demo here at Truitt & White Lumber in Berkeley. The larger saw was a lot more refined. I understand the larger one is a later version, and they never updated the smaller saw.
How long is the metal guide on the larger Festool? Does it break down, or is it one continuous piece? The catalog specs weren't clear on this.
I think they come in 50-inch sections. They fasten together securely.
With their combined set of portable tools, table, & jigs, you get a finish carpentry shop in portable form that you can set up in a few minutes. The impression is top quality, with the 6 1/2 inch saw the only exception. And that saw is still good, although as I said in my last post, not as rumble-free as the larger saw.
I'm getting more jobs to build garage shelving and add closet organizers, so I'm interested. Customers are wanting more like custom cabinet style shelving, so I'm trying to expand my capabilities to accomodate them. A lot of ripping/crosscutting shelves from a 4'x8' sheet, ripping pine for cleats/face frames, and I haven't come up with a good door design yet. I'm currently using a table saw for ripping, but its awkward with the 4'x8' sheets. Festool vs EZ Smart. I guess I'll have to go to a trade show to see them demonstrated.
Hey Huck, Festool system is made for a guy like you. (I swear I don't have any professional association with that company) Every saw & router comes with an excellent built-in dust collection system. One cabinet maker at the demo I attended is dumping a lot of his shop equipment, and I suggested he put in a hot tub in its place. The saw & guide system replaces a lot of functions of a table saw, but not all. For your purposes, you won't need a table saw. Again, it's the portability of the system that's it's biggest plus. It's easy to tote around, and won't take up a lot of shop or storage space.
Avram
I think it comes with a one piece 50" but you can get a bunch of different sizes, saw one at woodcraft that was about a one piece 8'. The pieces fasten together perfectly.
Before I start, let me reinterate that I think Festool makes a great product. But I can't really get the cult that surrounds it. Perfect alignment? Here's a Festool owner's statement from the Yahoo Users group in a recent thread:
"Must admit I'm disappointed in the info on railalignment although in confirms what I had read in your previous posts. From other posts I had read, people were saying they could align the rails for "perfect" rip cuts. That is why I purchased 2 of the 55" rails, to rip sheet goods. So now I guess I get to buy a $200rail and leave the second 55" on the wall. That's sad and very disappointing. I guess I should have realized that the posts are one persons opinion and what is "perfect" for one is not nearly "perfect"for another."
And about the super dust collection (I admit it's quite good but I'm waiting for a Festool owner to tell me he uses it in an Operating Room), there was this comment:
"It's like when I started reading about the ATF 55 dust collectionposts. One says minute, another says you must add adapters to saw tocollect better. Then I find out you can't purchase the Festooladapter because they took it out of production since they are comingout with a new saw. Dust collection was my main reason to startlooking at Festool."
Easy setup? Well, I read this on the User's Group:
"In setting up table I have ran into a coupleof problems which many of you probably have simple answers for.When adjusting the gibs on the ATF 55, the slots on the new rails make access to the screws difficult. In order to turn screws easily, had to do so with saw off of rail. Don't think this makes for the best fit but was necessary to adjust screws.
Struggling with how to cut rubber alignment strip on rail from one end to the other accurately. If I pull the saw back far enough for the blade to cut the very end of the strip the back gib becomes unengaged. Opposite happens at the far end. Front gib unengages.I can put side pressure on saw to push against side of rail but that presents chance of rail movement during cut. Wish I had a couple of 12" "dummy" rails to attach to each end of rail to be cut for overtravel."
There are plenty of "The Emperor Has No Clothes" threads out there but I'll leave it at that. My point here, very simply, is that while Festool makes a great product, it does a disservice to people looking to make a purchase to imply that it is without flaw, or that there isn't a very good, less expensive alternative available.PaulB
(edited for splint induced typos)
Edited 5/23/2005 9:05 am ET by PaulB
Edited 5/23/2005 9:28 am ET by PaulB
I bought my Festool before I heard of the EZ so I am not going to buy another one. That being said, I think either one would be fine. I do have the Festool vacuum now, and I am very pleased with the way it works. Anyone would be very pleased with the accuracy inherent in either one of these systems compared to homemade ones and I have made and used various ones over the years. I bought the Festool while looking for a jobsite saw and it has done everything I could have used a jobsite saw for including making narrow rips (done by butting two boards side by side). Pricewise, it was actually slightly less than the js saw I was considering and I have not regretted the decision in the two years I have had the Festool.
Looking at the EZ site, they routinely do the same thing. I did order the table leg set from EZ and that works great.
Regarding the comment about "not getting the cult thing" over Festo...It's the medicine we choose and stick with.
Same reason for showing the enthusiasm for the EZ guide.It's sortof like buying into the system and in Festo's case, dust collection is integrated into all their tools.
There are several other factors, such as soft start and the plunge mechanism.
Cut depth adjustment is very precise and easy to set.
Their sanders have no peers - dust collection is outstanding.Anyway, I couldn't be happier with the ATF-55, guiderail and the vaccuum.As for combining two shorter sections of guiderails for ripping 4x8 sheets, I decided that's not going to be my approach.
I'll get the longer guiderail in one piece.
23090.5 Take a look at this. Do you see any problem here?
23090.7
YCFDino
re - Take a look at this. Do you see any problem here?
------I don't understand the question...