Hi
I’ve been eyeing that Festool TS 55 or 75 for a while and may have a use for it.
I have a job that will include laying down about 1600 sqft of Pergo and building some cabinets on site. Tons of crazy angles greater than 45° and plenty of rips as well.
But the kicker would be it’s performance with Pergo. And will it’s blade hold up or should I get one for the job and keep a nice sharp spare for finer work?
Thanx,
10saw
Replies
Not to hijack but have you considered:
http://www.eurekazone.com?
That's the route I went vs the Festool and couldn't be happier (as well as many others here)
PaulB
Thanks,What appeals to me about the Fedstool is the non skid bottom which I can just slap on a line and cut without fooling with clamps. Does the EZ Guide work as fast? Looks like a clamp-on affair.The plunge cut of the saw not to be underestimated either,I've yet to find a portable tablesaw that I like so the price not a huge deal, I'd rather have the Festool than a Bosch TS at this point.10saw
The SmartGuide has many advantages. I'll grant you that the Festool saw has great dust collection but I have 2 Smart Guide systems with PC saws and they are awesome... peruse the website and check it out.
http://www.eurekazone.com
Lemme know if I can answer anything.
PaulB
What appeals to me about the Fedstool is the non skid bottom which I can just slap on a line and cut without fooling with clamps. Does the EZ Guide work as fast? Looks like a clamp-on affair.
How about taking a look at this.
http://www.eurekazone.com/products/detail/nst.html
The plunge cut of the saw not to be underestimated either, or overestimated. While I enjoy the feature at times, I more often find it a pain and find myself using the Festool saw only for special cuts. I don't enjoy holding down the plunge while I make all of the cuts. It limits how far I can reach. And worse yet it csan and occasionally does jump (that is why the saw now comes with one stop.)
I've yet to find a portable tablesaw that I like so the price not a huge deal, I'd rather have the Festool than a Bosch TS at this point.
Cutting narrow strips with the festool rail system is a problem. Only the EZ Smart provides the means for repeatability with the repeaters and the means to hold small pieces with the smart clamping system.Here is another Link.
http://eurekazone.com/gallery/smart-clamping-tutorials
Edited 11/15/2006 1:11 pm ET by Burts
Edited 11/15/2006 1:15 pm ET by Burts
what problems have you had cutting narrow strips with a Festool?
Maybe more time consuming to do multiple thin rips as the Festool does not have a repeater system as the ez, but I've had no problems cutting small strips with the Festool.
I personally don't mind the plunge feature, as for limiting the reach, I'd say if you are not able to hold the saw head down you're over extended and have lost control and grip on the saw.
what problems have you had cutting narrow strips with a Festool?
Maybe more time consuming to do multiple thin rips as the Festool does not have a repeater system as the ez, but I've had no problems cutting small strips with the Festool.
I agree with your comments about the repeater making repeat cuts easier. Also the capabilities of the smart clamping system make it possible to hold and rip a piece of wood as thin as 1/4".
As you say a festool saw can make the same cuts but it takes making special jigs and more time to do the task.
I personally don't mind the plunge feature, as for limiting the reach, I'd say if you are not able to hold the saw head down you're over extended and have lost control and grip on the saw
Again, I understand your statement and agree with most of it. I just prefer a saw that I can crosscut a 4' sheet with. Also, I don't like the way the saw can jump. I've heard that referred to "as the rite of initiation into the world of Festool." That is where the mark on a lot of Festool rails comes from.
Cutting small rips with your Festool is quite easy. Just today I ripped some extenison jambs that went from 3/32 to about 1/2" over about 81"Festool is a complete system right down to the way you carry it around. It's not just an edge guide that uses sticky tape to hold your after market saw to a plastic base.
OK/.
the question here is:
how do you hold (clamp) a narrow piece of wood and not
how you cut strips from a larger piece.
Can you clamp and cut a cabinet filler??? 3" wide?
From 2-1/2" to 2-1/4"?
Show me how you can do that with the festool system.
YES YOU CAN would you like a video?
I've done it and it's not terribly difficult, set the filler on my made up "bench" of plywood or on the last job and old door slab. Put the filler on it, set another filler or other scrap of 3/4" next to it so you can support the opposite side of the guide rail, line up your filler with the guide rail and cut away. I suppose if you really wanted to clamp it down you could at that point.
Either way it's not impossible and the easy smart is not the end all be all god's gift to carpenters tool, and neither is the festool. From what I've heard they are both good systems, owning the Festool I have a bias, but I've heard the EZ is a good system too, only different. Each has capabilities the other doesn't.
This whole EZ/Festool "debate/argument" is getting old and I can't believe the ferocity that the EZ supporters go through, what's with the extra tall letters anyway?
Chill out people it's a freaking tool, you people make it out like someone is insulting your mother when the festool is suggested over the ez guide.
...what's with the extra tall letters anyway?
I've done it and it's not terribly difficult, set the filler on my made up "bench" of plywood or on the last job and old door slab. Put the filler on it, set another filler or other scrap of 3/4" next to it so you can support the opposite side of the guide rail, line up your filler with the guide rail and cut away. I suppose if you really wanted to clamp it down you could at that point.
not terribly difficult ... .
find a bench or an old door....find another filler of same thickneess... to support the other side.... find another scrap to support both the filler and the s.crap...and find another scrap to clamp the firstr scrap and the filler. Then you can ..cut away.
Either way it's not impossible ....
Nothing is impossible.
This cut was done without scraps, old doors or tablesaw.
david
And what Davidwood didn't show you is that when you clamp the piece in and turn the rail over, the clamps form feet to support the rail so you can do the cut on the top of a marble counter top and not damage anything - No need for benches or scraps.
Burt,I hope you are feeling much better nowadays.Having said that, You have continuosly dogged everyone everywhere on the EZ gaget(Just like Dino). I'm happy you like/love it and there is never a reason not to say so, but like CAG said you think it's the end all to all things and it's not.One of the simplest reasons a bought the Festool and not the EZ was that I was able to see the tool in action in real time. I was able to see just how long it took and how easy and safe the tool was to use.Dino has no such video to view and I wonder why that is. It looks to me that the EZ takes some time to "setup" and to use with all it's componets and attachments.Within 3 mins of taking my TS55 out of its case the first time I was using it.
Joe,
Over the past few months, Dino has added several short video's. He has also shot a longer video that should be out any day. I'm in total agreement that the video's are helpful. DIno is also in the process or remodeling the web site.
Enjoy!
Burt
Dino has no such video to view and I wonder why that is.
cabinetmaker
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cabinetmaker 2
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the SRK
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View Image the repeaters.
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enjoy.
david.
Edited 11/17/2006 10:20 pm ET by davidwood
"the clamps form feet to support the rail so you can do the cut on the top of a marble counter top and not damage anything - No need for benches."
No offense Burts, but this is probably the worst piece of advice I've read in a long time. Using someone's countertop or floor as a workstation is begging for trouble. Not using a secure and stable workbench - whether it's Festool or EZ - is irresponsible, people get hurt that way.
Seems we've lost sight of the OP's question - Yes, the Festool will work with Pergo.
-Norm
The EZ is interesting, but since I have a bunch of guys using my tools, safety is a big concern, and I really like the plunge feature of the festool saw. From what I can tell, the EZ Guide is a bit more useful than the festool setup--being able to clamp small pieces to the rail is pretty slick. That said, I've never had any particular problem doing that w/ my festool.We do a fair amount of punch work in high-end occupied apartments, so the dust collection/storage advantage of the festool system was a tipping point for me. I also like the simplicity of the rail--there ain't a whole lot to cypher about how it works w/ the saw.
The comment about being able to safely cut on a marble counter top was in no way meant to suggest that anyone do that. It was meant to show the cut could be safely made on any surface.
And I also agree that the Festool could cut pergo and from what I've heard of pergo, I also think the purchase of an extra blade would be wise.
Burt
well isn't that just spec asz tacular...
I could give a ####.
and by the way, I don't have to "find" a scrap, or a door and I don't bother clamping it. The bench is set up as a work table, so it's always there, the scrap or other filler is more then likely with in arms reach... It doesn't take any longer for me to make a single thin strip then it takes you to do the same.
Edited 11/16/2006 10:34 pm ET by CAGIV
That's a hell of a tooth pick. EZ tools are prob good for make'n 'em
I've noticed that in these discussions of Festool vs EZ Smart, almost without exception, Festool supporters come up with remarks like yours here about "chilling out" while the EZ Folks just keep on talking about tools.
no, Burt, you don't keep talking about tools, you keep pushing ONE tool, the EZ, and grant it, it may be a fine tool but it's not the ONLY tool.
Nobody supporting the EZ answered the guy's question, you guys just jump in start talking about how great the EZ is. Which is fair, up to a point, but let it go after you tell him about it, there is no reason to keep pushing and pushing.
It get's old.
I'll apologize now, I'm in a piss asz mood and the constant EZ cheerleading irritates me
I think Burt is repping EZ...
Dino's helper or partner maybe..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Let me explain a little of my enthusiasm for the EZ Smart. First of all I'm a full time woodworker primarily because I enjoy woodworking.
In March 2004, I had prostate cancer and had the prostate removed. In July 2005, I developed an incesional hernia along with a groin hernia and had that repaired. In December of 2005, I had open heart surgery - 4 by passes plus a valve repair. All of this led me to look for an easier way of doing things. Following the heart surgery, I could handle a circular saw before I could move a sheet of plywood. My employee would put the sheet of plywood on the table and and I could make it into cabinet parts.
I own both Festool and EZ Smart equipment. I find that I like the EZ Smart equipment better. The use of the EZ equipment allows me to do far more than I would be capable of doing with conventional woodworking equipment. The ease of use of the EZ equipment helps to over come my physical limitations.
And the winner is...drum roll...envelope please..I bought the Festool!Frankly mostly based upon availability as a dealer is nearby. I love the idea of no clamps and plunge cuts.I'm sure the EZ is a fine tool and am willing to bet one could not determine which was used on a project but my decision was the Festool.Thanks all,oh yea I guess I'm a Festool guy now so uhhh....... chillout <G>10saw
Wow!Thanks all!BTW if I had to cut a 2 1/2" board to 2 1/4" with a Festool I'd just slap along side another peice of stock the same thickness but wider as a platform to use the rail system and have at it. This illustrates the appeal of the Festool to me; it takes a downward pressure to plunge the saw and hold the stock.But I've not used one yet just seen others use it.
Of course for a scribe strip like that I use a TS or a planer to get it just right.Lot's of ways to skin a cat. I like to have good tools that I can depend upon.Thanks again,10saw
David,What's with the Big letters? Are you trying to compansate for the lack of something? With the use of some simple aids, pieces of 3/4", 8" wide 48" and 96" long, I can cut anything with my Festool easily and safe. I use one great saw and different sized rails.Burt,Since your Festools are not doing it for you I'd be happly to take them off your hands.
Edited 11/15/2006 11:07 pm ET by Joe
Joe,
I didn't say that the Festool equipment is useless. I just said that overall it isn't my favorite. There are those places where it performs well. I don't use it often but as a full time wood worker, I'm in no rush to get rid of it. Occasionally it is the perfect tool for a task. In my "buffett" of circular saws, it has it's place.
The EZ guide has a "process" of how you go about "attaching" the strips to their guide. You can read about the "downside" to using it here. http://www.eurekazone.com/products/detail/nst.html
I've cut laminate with the stock blade that comes with the 55 and I'm a diehard Festool fan.However, with laminate floors you lay them so the cut ends are against the wall.
Rarely you will need to join cut ends.
This means any decent saw can be used for shortening a board.usually an entire floor can be laid with only factory edges joining.
With out turning this into yet another debate of the Easy Smart vs Festool I'll say I love my Festool TS 55.
They do make a speacial blade for laminate flooring
http://www.festoolusa.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProdID=489457&ID=3
The plunge cut is a great feature in my opinion.
I'd suggest buying an additional guide rail and the connectors as well as the clamps. They're not "necessary" but they are nice to have.
I'm sure quite a few EZ guide folks will be along in a short while to tell you how great the system is.
I own neither but will own one soon. My biggest
question concerns dust collection. I want to
know how the EZ guys deal with it. Dust
collection on the Fes isnt perfect from what
Ive seen on their little web videos but most
users think it nearly so. If I was doing floor
work I think the dust collection abilities
would be crucial.
User comments please?
I have used the previous festool circular saw with their vac. Dust collection was not 100% however it was very damn good. At one point I used it to cut down doors in a finished office space, cutting the doors right next to the location they were being installed and had to only vacumn the carpet right under the cut for a few seconds before it was clean.
I have never hooked the newer model up to the vac so I can't speak to exactly how it preforms though I doubt they made it worse with the new verison.
Many of the tool companies offer dust collection hookups for their saws. For example the PC, Hilti, and Worx come with dust collection hookeup. There is one available for Bosch that also can be adapted to other saws. To further enhance dust collection, dino offers a shield to make dust collection even better. Here is a link to the shield
http://eurekazone.org/photoinstructions/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=155
The dust control on the Fess plunge saw is good. You can't recover all the refuse from a chop saw on a bench with a fluted vacum port. Well the same is true with all circ. saws with dust extraction. I own the Fess plunge saw. It's a great system, it saves me alot of work. But I do wish it pulled the saw dust in better. I don't think you'll find a better system than the Fess sys. or the other one mentioned above. Because they will only perform so well to a point. It's just the nature of the tool. Sure you could prob get a hurricane force dust extractor pull going. But what would you pay for it ? And who makes it?
I don't think you'll find a better system than the Fess sys. or the other one mentioned above. Because they will only perform so well to a point. It's just the nature of the tool.
csacoe,
A better system can be invented by anyone.
Better than the Fess and ...the "other one"
It's just...human nature.
david
"My biggest question concerns dust collection."
I was thinking the same thing so I bought this saw today
http://hitachipowertools.com/store_item.php?iID=180&arrPath=,11,50,p180
View ImageMay neighbors respect You, and troubles neglect You.
Gord
I'm new to the Festool arena but have just used my TS55 for cutting laminate for a custom bookcase that has to fit in a funky space - not a 90 degree angle anywhere. Piece of cake and the cuts are beautiful. Anyway, Festool has different blades for different materials, and the TS55 motor speed is adjustable so you can fine tune the saw to get the right cut. The splinterguard on the saw works great, too.
By-the-way; the guide rail clamps to piece you're working.
It was a chunk 'o change but after using it I'm not looking back or second guessing my decision.
Good luck, -Norm
I have the Festool set-up, and yeah, it's great.
However, I would say the main reason you should consider the Festool is if dust collection is extremely important to your work -- and/or if you have use for the plunge cut feature.
Otherwise, the EZ is every bit as good, cheaper, and more versatile.
********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I'm gonna jump in here again...
I looked at both extensively before I bought. No doubt you will do fine with either set-up once you work thru their idiosyncracies to get the work you do, done.
Pricing: The EZ was cheaper. Way cheaper. Then I added in the cost of a dedicated saw (an 8 1/4 inch saw to get the cut depths I wanted) and a real good vac that I could take into a customers house (the ratty old Rigid wasn't going to cut it), then I looked at interconnecting all the pieces without being a Rube Goldberg contraption and suddenly, for a similar professional set-up the price differential wasn't so great.
Support: This was the clincher for me. I see Dino posting here and on other sites and he always goes the extra mile to answer questions and keep his customers happy. But if the customers saw, vac or whatever tool they're using on the guides has an issue he can't help beyond making suggestions. At the end of the day I wanted "one throat to choke"; one phone number to call and one company to deal with should I have a question or problem with any part of 'the system'.
Intangibles: The Systainers that interlock and stack on top of the vac are a nice. 2-3 trips to the work area is now one. The tools are protected and I know everything is in the boxes.
Again, I'm not trash talking anybody's choices. For me, the type of work I do (I can't recall ever having to cut thin strips repeatedly) and the "one throat to choke" piece of mind ultimately drove the decision.
Good luck whichever direction you go. -Norm
I understand and agree with your comments about cost. In fact some of the EZ items such as the Smart Router Kit is more costly than the Festool Product. At the same time the SRK can also be used with a planer, jig saw, line boring tool, etc.
I have the Festool 55 saw and the MFT. I also have most of the EZ Smart equipment. I prefer the EZ equipment because I am not limited to one source for my tooling. If I destroy a saw blade doing a project, I like being able to go to the corner store and buy one that will work. With the Festool European sized arbor, blades are available only from a very limited number of sources.
I also enjoy being able to use a variety of saws. With the EZ you can use everything from a 6 1/2" Makita cordless saw to a makita 16" saw and everything in between including the Festool saws.
The EZ rails are bi-directional and can be used on either side of the rail. This makes it a lot easier to place the rail.
You mentioned Dino and yes, I consider him to be a big strength. When I ordered my first set, he called to make sure that I received it and to help with any concerns that I might have. I've seen him make almost instant changes to improve the product. He is involved in the EZ Forum on a daily basis and offers customer service that is second to none.
The EZ rails are stronger and more durable. Also the dovetail connectors make joining two rails easier.
David,After reviewing the videos all I can say is that if I wanted to cut up scrap I know what tool to buy. Now that may not be fair to say but it sure looks like that’s what he is doing.I would have liked to see the “set-up†to make any of the saw cuts and then the change over time to do something else. The key for me in any thing I use is simplicity, with the Festool I can do many things with just the rail and saw. If I add the pair of clamps I can do even more things. Finally with just some simple jigs I can do just about anything with just seconds to change operations.
what are you favorite jigs for the festool?
CAG,I have 2 pieces of ¾†plywood one 8†x 55†and the other 8†x 96â€. I attached a strip of the fiction tape to the edge of each. By using them I can cut very thin pieces by placing the piece against the plywood and placing the rail atop. The fiction tape hold the piece so they can’t move.
"I have 2 pieces of ¾†plywood one 8†x 55†and the other 8†x 96â€. I attached a strip of the fiction tape to the edge of each. By using them I can cut very thin pieces by placing the piece against the plywood and placing the rail atop. The fiction tape hold the piece so they can’t move."
Joe,
I can see how that would work with 3/4" stock. What about other thicknesses of stock? Do you also carry two pieces each of 1/8". 1/4". 3/8". 1/2", 5/8", 7/8", etc? Seems to me that a pair clamps is a lot easier to deal with!!
Burt
Burt,95% of the time I'm cutting 3/4 stock. If and when I do cut something thinner or thicker I can work around it. It's not that difficult.BTW I looked at all of Dino's videos and in everyone he cut 3/4 stock. . . . . .
Joe,
As long as your world is 3/4" - no problem. I have a lot more sizes in my world.
Burt
nikkiwood, I might get some time today to post a picture of the jigs.Burt,I'm glad for you. . . . BTW tell Dino to make some videos using something other then 3/4"
I'm trying to picture this jig in my head, but I can't.Got a pic?********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
After reviewing the videos all I can say is that if I wanted to cut up scrap I know what tool to buy. Now that may not be fair to say but it sure looks like that’s what he is doing.
Joe.
Video A.
Cutting narrow dimensional strips (parts) without measuring, binding kickbacks and accidents. W/O a tablesaw.
Video B.
Cutting cabinet parts without measuring,binding, kickbacks and accidents. W/O a tablesaw. Better, faster and easier than a $20.000.00 sliding table saw.
Video C.
First ever X-Y portable routing system.Fluting without repositioning of the guide rail.
You said that you like to see some videos.
http://eurekazone.com/gallery/SRK-in-action
Video D. The repeaters.
Cutting edges from narrow strips (scraps) without re-clamping after each cut,, material support,, kickbacks, accidents,push sticks,measuring, expensive resaw, planers and a million scraps/jigs.
PS.
If you only saw toothpicks and scraps... something is wrong ...
with the videos.. .
First I admit it. I own the EZ and like it. I wonder how many others out there are like Burts and own both the Festool and EZ. Come on now, someone else speak up who has both.
If you add up the pluses and minuses, let's see . . .
1). The EZ is cheaper but by the time you buy the saw and lots of accessories maybe not.
2). The EZ does have some initial set up time.
3). With all the accessories, the EZ may be a bit more versatile but at a cost. (see #1)
4). Most say the Festool used with a vac is almost perfect at not leaving dust.
5). Arbor size on Festool. Sawblades aren't readily available at your corner hardware store or HD or Lowes.
6). Plunge action on Festool. Some like it for safety. Others don't.
7). Ability to use different saws with the EZ. Many see it as a plus.
8). As someone said, the Festool has a one company responsibility and the buck stops there.
9). OTOH, Dino is a helpful, responsive and certainly innovative guy.
Any other thoughts?
I do find it interesting how passionate some people are about this. For God's sake it's just a tool. Do some people get fightin' mad over brands of paint brushes or putty knives?
I don't know about paintbrushes or puttyknives but at times it sounds similar to a Ford or Chevy debate.
I understand IMERC is notorious in defense of his proFord stance.The end move in politics is always to pick up a gun. R. Buckminster Fuller
sure I'm ProFord.. there's a lot you can do with a Ford..
put a real engine and drive train in 'em and use them as a real truck...
clean 'em up up and you can use them for starter reefs... long term fishing benefits.. R&R as a by product....
don't clean 'em up and you can set them down range as targets and sell the the leftovers for scap.... get yur rocks off and some pocket change outta the deal...
they don't fair well at the demo derbys but what the hay... go for it anyways.... have some fun..
so Ford does have uses and value ya know....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Whatever sawguide system you use, you can expect laminate flooring to thrash the blade. The scuff-resistent finish is made with silica, which dulled a nice 40T carbide blade when I used my on my SCMS for a job.
Factor a new blade or sharpening charge into your quote.
Ben,
Thanks for your note of caution. I fully understand your concern and hope that I don't cross the line.
By the way, I love your signature line or whatever that is called. It say a lot.
Thanks,
Burt
My concern is that you and some others do not turn people away from this wonderful tool by what could be perceived as fanaticism.
Ben
I've said this over at knots before to someone else, and now here, if you/anyone is not buying a tool because someone maybe "turned you off" from considering the purchase then I really wonder about your ability to think for yourself.
I've been on web sites that I cant navigate through but I'm not willing to dismiss the tool because of that, just as I'm not willing to dismiss a tool because someone that touts the tools is overzelous or just plain says stuff that I dont like.
I question the sincerity of some on here that claim that they didnt buy a particular brand of tool just because the person that was hawking it was someone that they didnt care for.
Not directed at you but I see it everytime this topic comes up, same goes for those that stand behind the tool that they bought even though they've never seen or used the others!
Doug
I question the sincerity of some on here that claim that they didn't buy a particular brand of tool just because the person that was hawking it was someone that they didn't care for.
Why would you question their sincerity? If someone irritates you, do you make it a habit to shop at their stores? Think about Larry, he could have had the best invention in the world but the guy was so messed up in the head he would have turned off most potential customers IMO.
To be honest a portion of the reason I didn't purchase the EZ system is because Dino rubbed me the wrong way with his fanatism, why would I want to put money in the pocket of someone who irritated me?
People like DavidWood and Burt are almost as bad. This thread started out with a simple question, can you cut laminate with a Festool Saw, Then Burt and David come in and star pimping the EZ guide... Fine to a point but they won't let up, and all off a sudden there is a huge damn argument over which system is better....
You mean it sounds a lot like tavern polijive?
yeah lol something like that
I never saw Larrys tool but if it did what I needed then HELL YES I would buy it, I dont care what the guy was like.
I stand behind my comment on questioning there sincerity, I've never gave to much thought to what the people at Milwaukee or Bosch or ......... think or do, I only concern myself with the tools that I'm buying.
I dont have a problem with you or anyone buying whatever tool you want, hell its your money, buy whatever you want.
If someone irritates you, do you make it a habit to shop at their stores?
Thats different then buying a particular brand of tool, at least in my opinion. I dont shop at certain tool stores for one reason or another but I dont single out a brand that has an owner that rubbed me the wrong way. I want to buy the best tool for the money and the best tool that will do the job, I couldnt possibly care less about the personality of the inventer/owner.
I find it interesting the debate that insues everytime the Festool vs EZ comes up, hell people that never so much as bothered to take a look at the tool that they chose not to buy have such strong opinions on them. Thats all fine but because of that the arguments get sorta foolish IMO.
Hell theres one guy on here that doesnt own either of the two tools but yet offers up his opinion on them with nothing more then what he's seen in the pictures! At least the Ford/Chevy debate usually has the debator owning one or the other!
You singled out Burts and David reguarding the EZ but Joe does the same thing with the Festool and he admits that he's never even seen(in person) the EZ so whats the diff!
Christ it's a damn tool, I'm guessing that I could get the same results if I had your Festool and vice a versa with you and my EZ.
I dont know why it always goes down the same path but I find in amusing, maybe thats because I dont go into the tav so this is about as close as I'll get to petty bickering!
I've played around with the Festool and own the EZ and wouldnt bother to make any comparisons on here reguarding the two tools because it turns into a freaking circus everytime, somethings never change, thats why I dont bother with the tav. I have an ex-wife if I want to engage in frivolous arguments!
Doug
yeah.,.. well...
they started it!
;)
When I singled out Burt and Dave it was only because they were in this particular thread. I don't have a problem with the discussion of tools and I'm sure there are just as many Festool fanatics are there are EZ however, the constant pushing gets old.
Like you I could careless what someone ends up buying, what irritates me is how it always turns into an argument and it's predicatable. As soon as Festool is mentioned the EZ cheerleading squad shows up. I'll give them one thing, they got stamina! Maybe it happens for the EZ with Festool folks, but I've not noticed it.
Frankly..If ya read the title of the thread it was dealing with FESTOOL.Heck I made up my mind long ago to go with the Festool and was only curious if the time was right due to a flooring job that came my way. I got the TS75 for entirley different reasons but that's irrelevant. Didn't even cut one piece of Pergo with it!If the Burts of the world are affiliated with EZ or not they need to back off as I'm kinda suspicious about the responses I've seen here and elsewhere in the archives.We aint stupid alright....If it's a good tool it will speak for itself........................and Bosch will buy them out<G>10saw
Any idea of how long the special laminate flooring blade lasts? At $55 I hope it is a long time. By the way Paul was the one who offered up EZ. Burt first jumped in to answer a specific EZ question the OP asked.
Jayhawks looking pretty good, it's 5 min into 2nd half with Fla. We are hoping to get to go the the KU-South Carolina game.
That was one hell of a game last night, I thought the Jayhawks had it and then blew it.... Overtime was great I'm glad that they ended up with the win..
As for how long that blade last I don't know, I just remembered seeing it before.
Definitely worth staying up for, even here in Eastern time zone. Will be interesting to see this weeks ratings.
Here is something you might enjoy reading:
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200661125020
Bob
Good article, I didn't realize he was so close to 500 wins..
He's a great coach and a great man.
what irritates me is how it always turns into an argument and it's predicatable. As soon as Festool is mentioned the EZ cheerleading squad shows up.
That pretty much sums it up, thats why I dont bother with any comments about the specifics of the tool, gonna be someone come along and tell me I'm wrong and bla bla bla.......
Doug
CAG...
I've stayed outta this one (although I think IIRC that I was the first to suggest EZ as an alternative to Festool in this thread). I just don't have the time right now, but I have been a vocal, outspoken, EZ booster since back when I was (I think) the first BT regular to buy one, or at least rave about them here.
On other forums I was attacked personally and in a very nasty fashion for championing EZ, in one case by a regular to the forum that I was able to identify on a German ww forum as a self described Brand F "coworker"...
In another forum a Brand F attacker went back three years on Google to find a tongue in cheek off color remark I made in a newspaper interview to slander me and misdirect the debate.
I have seen numerous examples of tactics such as these directed at others by, I believe, a well orchestrated semi official (at least) Brand F "hit squad". So, if "we" get our backs up at times, or seem extra vocal in our support, there's often good reason.
BTW, I do agree that the debates do get out of control at times, but hey that's half the fun as long as we all remain polite and civil... I'm not thin skinned ;)
PaulB
From:
MatthewSchenker <!----><!---->
Nov-25 6:48 am
To:
ALL <!----><!---->
(1 of 40)
32780.1
This is the crux of a lot of discussions about guide-rail systems. I've seen several creative solutions. As always, shop-made solutions can be better than manufactured ones.
If you've developed a reliable repeatability jigs for your Festool guide-rail system, please share your ideas.
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From:
Joe <!----><!---->
Nov-25 7:49 am
To:
MatthewSchenker <!----><!---->
(2 of 40)
32780.2 in reply to 32780.1
Matt,
The repeatability of the Festool isn't really in question, the boys at EZ like to make it one because they feel it's the one point to separate the two systems. If I’m cutting cabinet parts for thirty cabinets I’m not using my Festool, If however I’m making a few I might.
For me the question is which tool is most convenient and simple to use and in my opinion it’s Festool.
From the knots. Nuts.
david
Deep breaths, dude.
What the hell is that suppose to mean?
And as for me having an ex, what the f#$k would you know about that?
Your funny Ben
I'd call it more "un-stable" which could very well be funny... depending on his distance from you
I'd call it more "un-stable"
LOL.
I think its funny how someone can run his mouth knowing that he can hide behind his monitor and say what he said.
Its hard to get bent out of shape over some of this stuff, its mostly just funny.
I didnt think I went off on a rant to you about the Festool vs EZ, at least thats not what I meant to do. I wasnt directing my "sincerity" comment to you personally, just making an observation. Maybe my remark about my ex was what triggered him!
I've just made it a rule not to argue about which tool is better, isnt the idea of it(the tool) to get the results that were looking for? Could you imagine how the job sites would be if everyday we'd square off against each other because you use Dewalt drills and I use Milwaukee, thats what it seams like on here at times. I cant imagine anybody acting like that in their real life.
Doug
I got bored here last night and ventured over to knots. There were two running threads reguarding the Festool vs EZ, much more entertaining then the ones that go on on this side of the fence. Very little info pretaining to the actual tools but a good read none the less!
Went back over tonight to see how things were going and here is what I found!
Both threads have disapeared!
32949.1
Anybody think that the guys on the Knots side of the fence are more reserved then we on this side are kidding themselves.
I think that the agrument has taken on new heights and neither side was conceeding anything!
Doug
I think them Knot's guys by nature are a bit more "testy"
I think it's something about being forced to drink their tea with a pinky extended...
The same policy in place here, it's just a matter of enforcement.
No, Berger just moved them to the Cafe, out of sight to any but those who have asked "permission" for access. Notice too, all the posts he deleted.http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=32780.1http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=31869.1Did you see what he announced this morning?http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=32949.1You guys can look forward to the time Berger moves over to BT to clean things up <G>.....................********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
View Image General Discussion - Violators Will Be Banned From Knots
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From:
MBerger <!----> View Image<!---->
Dec-4 8:05 am
To:
ALL <!----><!---->
(1 of 24)
32949.1
After numerous attempts to quell the ongoing arguments in Knots between Festool and EZ Smart users, we are modifying our recently instituted policy to delete posts that further agitate this issue.
NEW POLICY:ANY KNOTS MEMBER THAT POSTS A DISPARAGING COMMENT ABOUT ANOTHER USER, NO MATTER THE SUBJECT, WILL BE BANNED FROM KNOTS. THIS INCLUDES POSTS THAT TAUNT OTHER USERS INTO USING DISPARAGING COMMENTS. THIS POLICY BEGINS 12/4/2006 at 8 a.m. et.
We don't have the time to police Knots so if you would like to report a violation, please use the "options" menu to "report a violation" and we will respond to requests as time permits.
Matt BergerFine Woodworking
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be Hey, there's another forum over there.
I dont go in the Tav or the Cafe so I didnt see that they had been moved over there.
I just assumed it got uglier and they(the two threads) were taken down completley. Oh well, what they lacked in information they made up for in entertainmet!
Doug
You've been a part of some of the Festool/EZ follies at Knots. All I can say is --at least the BT crowd doesn't have to deal with Matthew Schenker. I think he knows he'd be skinned alive on this side of the divide..........********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
nikki!!!
Now you've done it... you have invoked the name of "He Who Walks Behind The Rows"... ("Children of The Corn").
("He wants you too...Mordechai".) ;)
So the name rings a bell, eh?I'm surprised he has not been around already complaining about being "unfairly attacked" by me. That's the way it usually goes at Knots, then we writes to the sysop saying he is pure as the driven snow, and it is unconscionable that some of us are so "uncivil". I would bet money that he's seen this thread and written to the BT sysop.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
ya know, I wonder if after a while the mods start giffawing out loud at some of this.:o)
Rez says:"ya know, I wonder if after a while the mods start giffawing out loud at some of this.:o)"Just what is it that makes people act this way. The idea of being upset about a discussion?! I'd leave it alone but I started a pretty basic question about a Festool.Ya hear that EZ guys FESTOOL!!! I have zero interest in EZ and if I ever did you guys spoiled it as it's pretty transparent a few of you are affiliated with EZ..either that or you ran out of meds..Either way.....10saw
I think you would find that the only connection those guys have with the EZ is that they are customers who have offered up some suggestions and thereby helped develop some of the accessories. Do not believe any Paul, Burt especially are in any way financially involved other than sending their money to EZ.
You might note that almost every time this happens it is someone dissing the EZ and about the only negative thing ever said about the Festool products by the E camp is that it is more pricey than they could afford and that there are a few more things they feel they can do with the EZ.
As OP you have the right to the way you wanted the discussion to go. It would have been nice to have said your "I have zero interest in EZ " and then no one should have tried to give you one iota of info about the EZ. I certainly won't.
I have zero interest in EZ.That ought to do it...fer a minute....Regards,
10saw
Cheers, nuff said. (actually too much said).(not aimed at you or anyone in particular).
Bob
Ok all *Z guys stay quiet (at least on this thread). (:-)
Mostly, I think they just get irritated -- mainly because Taunton is obviously trying to direct more traffic to both BT and Knots, and people blow in off the street and are either taken aback or even irriated with that kind of acrimony. But I lay all this at the feet of MS, since he has created what I would term a cult of true believers over at "his" formum on Yahoo. If you spend any real time over there, as I have, it's pretty wierd and even unnerving.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I think he knows he'd be skinned alive on this side of the divide..........
God, lets hope so!
Yea, I've made my opinions on the EZ known but at some point ya gotta know when to quit!
Personally I dont think that I could get better results with the Festool over the EZ or vice versa, and I'd guess that that holds true for most of us that use either of the two tools.
I'm a firm believer that the EZ will do nothing but make the Festool better and the same in reverse, compitition/inovation is what makes all these tools better and we're all the benifactor of it.
Doug
Gee Ben it's been damn near 2 months and thats the best you could come up with!
You might be good with the english language but your slow as shid when it comes to retorts!
Doug
guess it's yur turn...
ROAR!!!!!!Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
This guys a chuckle head!
But I gotta play one more time!
Doug
I had the grammar, wording and spelling poe-leece all over my butt just a bit ago...
it's just nice to see somebody sharing the load...
it's still a grand ROAR!!!!!Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I think there is a word in his profile that might suggest his intent here.
I'm about the worst speller on this damn(oh, sorry for that harsh word, my most humble apology)place, well except for Brown, but I try, really I do!
I'm guessing this guys probably some pimple faced kid with rich parents that don't much care about him so they bought him a computer to keep him out of their hair. It takes all kinds I guess.
I gotta go see if I can drive more people into the trades! Hell, isnt there a thread about how to get more people into the trades, well I think I know how to do it!
Doug
gheeze guy.. Pif and I don't get honorary mentions in the spelling department???
thanks.. now yur out ta hurt feelings...
saw that in the profile.. I thought self rightous angry reigned....
yup on the trades thread....
and BTW... I don't think you have any business appologizing to me... the choir thing and all...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Edited 1/18/2007 11:19 pm by IMERC
HEY!!!!
maybe he'll pick up where the dot police left off......Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Yea, that'll be wonderful!
Doug
Ben
Guys like you are one of the reasons the trades are looked down on as a last resort for a career.
Guys like me are what the trades are all about. My work is impeccable, go over to the gallery and take a look. Guys like me are in high demand.
Maybe you think the trades are a last resort for a career, and maybe in your case it was, sorry to hear that. I imagine your work reflects your attitude.
I have a couple degrees that would allow me to do other things, some would make me a lot more money. I choose to do this as a career.
I'm not real sure what your trying to accomplish in your posts to me but I think I see a hint of it in your profile.
I'll probably read your witty response but don't take it personally if I don't exchange posts with you on this subject, its pretty much played itself out, actually it had back in November!
Doug