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What I am interested in is how do I prevent mold from forming in the Silicone caulk.
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All i know about shower doors is that the tracks are breeding grounds for mosquitos and it's really difficult to wad one up and throw it in the washing machine. That and i thought all of them started out clear and became opaque over time, a little shower stall patina deal.
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Shower doors or curtains are an unneccesary evil if you have a little room to play with.
Try to design the shower away from needing a curtain or door. Take the shower heads up an extra 8" (so they aim more down), use quality water-saver heads (cuts down on the droplet size, and hence, spray inertia), and design so that the heads shoot away from the entrance (if you can't put them in the corner, away from the door).
I've designed and built two lately, both about 4 X 5, and one has no curb for wheelchair roll-in. No spray that can't be quickly swiped up if it didn't land on the bath mat. I have another to design and build this month, and the client (also wheelchair) saw the first two and wants one similar with a shower chair, rather than a 3 X 4 transfer shower.
My lovely wife an I have lived with ours for 5 years, with three shower heads (showering together nightly) and have zero problems with it.
*Good rules for shower doors:(1) Don't use the frameless kind that require perfectly square and plumb surrounds. Specific brand name - How about Kohler? (an installation nightmare). Or stuck-on strips for waterproofing cracks. PS, just because it's a piece of glass doesn't mean that it's square!(2) If you ignore rule (1) make the sure that the guy who finishes the walls and the guy who installs the door are the same guy. Use Dueschqueen (sp?) hardware, etc. Hope for the best.(3) With swinging glass doors, make sure that they won't hit anything (like a toilet) - Toilets look funny with rubber bumpers on them. Don't make swinging glass doors too big.(4) Don't forget that most shower doors come in standard heights. Those that don't come in much higher, non-standard prices.(5) High-quality aluminum for middle-of-the road work, chrome plated brass for high end.What do I want to know? Why are custom shower door installers so, well, er, a bit 'off'? Or is it just our imagination.Jeff Clarke
*U-R (Universal Rundle) has a line of shower doors called Showerite.. good quality, good pricing..sliding and neo-angle, curved, corner entry, frameless..quite a full line.. plus options...like IN-FOLD inswinging doors...
*My experience:Don't get the frameless kind. I was replacing one frameless door after cleaning the tracks -- can't do it properly with doors in place -- and I ticked a corner of the door on the tub. All of a sudden I was holding air and had a pile of glass pebbles all round my feet. I was also barefoot, as it happened.Get the kind with three doors, not two. Makes in and out much easier.I prefer a shower curtain for tub enclosures and door only for an actual shower. Better still is no door at all for a shower, if you have the room for it.
*Mike, I thought most codes prohibited shower doors which swing inward. Can you give more information on the IN-FOLD doors? The typical out-swing shower door often drips on the dry area outside the shower, and of course, takes up space in what is often a cramped bathroom area.Thanks, Steve4
*Steve...here's what it says ..have to check with U-R if u want more than that.. i don't see why this would be a code issue... it's not a commercial store...it's a showerBarry.. a little excitement in your life with that one , eh?
*Thanks, Mike, for the quick reply. I think my reference to the egress problem relates to a situation in a SMALL shower where a person who was getting scalded couldn't get out quickly, or, if someone inside had a heart attack or something, it would be difficult to open the door to give them assistance... or something like that. A quick check of my CABO book didn't turn up any specific code requirements.Of course, any shower remodeling we do now includes pressure-balanced shower controls, so at least part of the concern is addressed.Thanks again, Steve
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"Shower stall patina" I'll have to remember that one. My significant other has said that we can't buy any house that has shower stall or tub doors. While I think that's taking it a bit far, (after all, they could be removed) I have to agree that shower curtains are superior to doors IMO. The tracks are impossible to ever get really clean and the aluminium starts to corrode and get crusty over time. Plastic liners are cheap enough to throw out when they get a bit of mold and the curtains and liners last through a few washings. When you get tired of looking at a shower curtain, a new one is not too expensive, when you get tired of looking at the shower stall door... But I guess her most persuasive argument against doors on a tub is that the track on the edge of the tub is really uncomfortable to rest an arm or leg on if you want to stretch out when taking a bath, or to sit on, not to mention the door or fixxed side always being in the way.
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I'm starting to research an article about shower doors for the Y2K Kitchens and Baths issue. What do you want to know about them? What do you already know about them? Got anything that you love or hate about the doors currently on your shower? Anybody installed shower doors? Are there tricks to that trade? Features on particular doors that make them easy or hard to install?
I'm hoping for specifics; brand names and such. I want to hear about all kinds of doors; tub-mounted, pan-mounted, sliding, hinged and any other type I've not mentioned. Feel free to answer here, e-mail me or phone me at 800-926-8776x420. I'm out of the office all of next week, so I won't respond to contacts right away. It sure would be nice to come back and find the sum total of western civilization's knowledge of shower doors at my fingertips, though. I know that you Breaktimers won't disappoint me.
Best to all,
Andy Engel
*here's what i know... er.. some of what i know...Clear Glass costs more than opaque or patterned... why is that?...i try to talk my customers out of shower doors on tubs..we recommend Curtain rods with a liner inside and decorative curtain outside...most of the showers we install are neo-angle..most of the doors run from $400 to $1200 for standard neo-angle...if i think of some more , i'll be back..
*Let's see...the two brands I have installed the most are Basco and Century...Basco for standard size units (neo-angle and tub-mounted) and Century for custom enclosures.Overall, I have had good luck with the Basco, usually takes about 2-3 hrs. to install. It's nice to have a good selection of drill bits on hand and if I did them a lot I would carry around a variety of stainless steel screws...you never know when you might lose one or need something extra. During framing it's good to try to remember to put a nailer in behind where the enclosure will go... a 2x4 or 2x6 on the flat so you don't have to worry about using anchors. Good to have Windex, too. Some of them have rubber gaskets that have to be pressed in place and a little Windex makes it a lot easier.I would say the trend for my clients has been toward clear glass... ok if you like to clean the glass a lot. As far as custom enclosures go, I have done a couple myself but usually try to get my glass & mirror sub to do it. Like anything, a specialist has the tools and experience to do a better job. If somebody wants to do it themselves, I personally advocate waiting until the shower is finished before ordering the enclosure. That can be hard to sell to a customer who doesn't want to wait four weeks to start using their shower, or when you are pressed to finish a job, but I think every time I have ordered one before I had the shower finished I wound up regretting it.Interesting side note... I had one door that was just one fixed piece of glass, two pieces of aluminum track, and a door with two hinges already mounted. The whole package cost about $1200, but when the fixed piece turned out to be too big, I ordered another piece (3/8" tempered) from my glass sub, and he got it for me at about $100. Kinda makes you think about those profit margins...
*I hear you about those profit margins, Nick, particularly with hinged doors. The hinges are available, and although tempering adds considerably to its cost, glass is still a bargain. You just have to be really careful when measuring so as not to end up with a useless piece of tempered glass. I'd like to explore this more in the article, so if anybody's experienced in installing custom shower glass, please chime in.Andy
*What can I say about shower doors? They leak, they are hard to clean, they come out of alignment at the slightest excuse(like me leaning on one), they look good in displays and in model homes but not very good after living with one for a year or so, they are expensive.As you can see I am no fan of them. I much prefer a rod and curtain unless the architectural design won't permit anything else. Then I feel sorry for the owner.
*What I am interested in is how do I prevent mold from forming in the Silicone caulk.
*Kerry,One thing I have heard is it didn't start to mold up till we started using that spray (and not have to do anything else) stuff that just came out. Regular cleaning didn't seem to do that. Maybe?
*Fellas,I don't buy into all that nonsense about shower doors being hard to clean. So is a shower curtain. Keep a squeegee in the shower and yes I like the clean shower spray too. It is mandatory for keeping your door clean with a minimum of maintenance. The biggest problem with shower doors is bathing the rugrats. The bottom track is hard on the elbows and the you don't get full acces to the tub.As far as installation goes, I like Alumax products for the money, I only cauk the inside and have had good luck using bathtub caulk ( I believe they contain mildewcides as opposed to regular silicone) and I like to tool the bead so that there are no voids for mold to grow.I am not a fan of neo angle units. I like custom enclosures but leave those to the glass guys.Tom
*Andy, I sub 'em out. Better margin, since the glass and mirror company is not only efficient, but also takes responsibility for the fit and function of the installed product. I'm then free to do what I do most efficiently (i.e., profitably). I'm not brand sensitive, as long as the supplier carries the product as a standard line. Also, the glass and mirror folks can offer my clients a greater range of styles than I can round up on my own. They handle the sales/selection process, again saving my time for other activities.Right now, most clients want clear glass, and the "frameless" look for both swinging and sliding doors is in. Admittedly, our work leans heavily toward the high end.Someone mentioned silicone caulk. I forbid it, cause it guarantees callbacks for mildew and makes any recaulking virtually impossible. I've never seen a leak with Phenoseal.But, hey!, these are just my opinions.Regards, Steve
*Who needs shower doors ????I just duct tape a piece of 3 mil plastic to the cieling, and let if hang down inside the tub. When it comes cleaning time, (every third year or so), I tear it down and put up a clean piece.
*I second that request.
*Use a good full view storm door and rainX to keep cleaning to a min.