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I only have one piece of advice here: make sure you pick
one that is interested in YOUR vision, not his. I worked on
a ridiculous, overdesigned and stupidly designed house last
year that was the result of a young architect adding some
details to his portfolio just because he knew he could get
away with them, the client bought into his whole program. I
could spend hours describing how much this affected not only
the client, but the people who had to build this thing, and
anyone who will ever spend time in the
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I only have one piece of advice here: make sure you pick
one that is interested in YOUR vision, not his. I worked on
a ridiculous, overdesigned and stupidly designed house last
year that was the result of a young architect adding some
details to his portfolio just because he knew he could get
away with them, the client bought into his whole program. I
could spend hours describing how much this affected not only
the client, but the people who had to build this thing, and
anyone who will ever spend time in the
*
You might not even want an Architect , just a good competent designer with a track record.
Not to belittle your plans, but a 2500 sf. ranch is not a big stretch. And a lot of Architects (capital "A") would find the project not of interest , because they can't support a business on the fees that that project generates.
One of the BEST projects I ever worked on was a young Architect with a lot of experience. We put together a dream team......Architect, Builder, Owner. But this is unusual in my experience.
One of the big complaints is that the house gets overdesigned and then the Architect goes for low-bid to bring the project in for budget, and screws the low bidders into the ground to get it built. The hidden quality suffers.
Find some designs that you like in your area, find out who designed them, and go talk to them..it might be an Architect, a Designer, or a Design-Build firm.
b ever read "House" by Tracey Kidder (???)
*Architects are expensive. Maybe 5% - 15% of the cost of the project depending on the level of involvement. I think they are invaluable on unusual projects, and of course on commercial construction.If an Architect is what you want/need, find one that does projects very similar to yours.I took a class from (probably a great) architect. Everything be designed had low pitched roofs and 3' overhangs. My taste for colonial/traditional architecture was trash (in his opinion). What do you think the addition to a cape looked like that his firm designed?By the way, I recently read that one of Franklin Lloyd Wright's most famous projects - forget the name - that waterfall house in PA, was having structural problems!
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Jack
Ditto to those who suggested that you look beyond working only with an architect. The best designer that I have worked with is actually an Architectural Technologist whose father was a contractor, so he grew up working in the field. A good hint-check out the designers hands-if they are soft and smooth and manicured, chances are they haven't swung a hammer lately. Also do they own a truck or utility type vehicule or just a pristine beemer.
Nothing beats a creative designer who knows how to actually build the stuff they design.
I agree too that 2500 sf isn't an elaborate project...unless you are into some kick-ass interior detailing. Ask to see your designers millwork detailing....columns, cabinetry, fireplaces, vanities etc.
Drive around, look at houses that you like and be bold-knock on doors and ask who did the design.
Good luck
*Hi Matt,FYI, the Frank Lloyd Wright house you are referring to is "Fallingwater", one of his best known designs, and famous for its cantilevered structure. Wright has been very controversial for years due to problems encountered with his buildings. Many of the roofs leak (many are flat), the majority of his early attempts at infloor radiant heating have failed, a number of houses have fallen into disrepair, including his studio, Taliesin, in Wisconsin. One of his best known clients called him Frank Lloyd Wrong!However, don't forget that a lot of time has passed since he was with us, and a lot of other buildings have fallen prey for a lot of reasons. He pushed the envelope, created entire buildings, furnishings, even decorations and place settings as well as lighting, concrete blocks of his own design, many innovations, and many are truly timeless. I'm not sure what the problems specifically are at Fallingwater, but I have been there, and it is spectacular. I can only imagine that having a good sized stream running under your house may eventually cause structural problems!Just a little background from someone who has intensively studied the man and his wo
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Matt, The Frank Lloyd Wright house you refer to is Falling Water. Most of the damage that has recently been repaired is a result of being built over a stream. Moisture created alot of havoc as you can probably imagine. Bill Swales
*Well, I went to the web to take a look for info on my previous statement about F. L. Wright. Didn't find it, but here is an interesting URL for Wright info:Wright on the Web
*I think I saw an ad somewhere soliciting contributions to restore Falling Water. I think the ad said it was damaged by a flood.Jerry
*I did over 10 years ago Mike. I still use the quote "The thing of it is we don't want to pay for your stairs" (builder to home owner about an extra or oversight).joe
*I may have read the same article that Matt read but I can't find it now. The thrust of the article was that the cantilevered sections of the house used steel that was terribly undersized to to the job. During construction, the contractor added some steel in a few places (not approved by FLW) and this still wasn't enough. Some of the structure has sagged seven inches below the rest of the floor.As far as I'm concerned, half of being a good architect is good structural design. If Frank Lloyd Wright was so bad at this, why do so many consider him to be so good?
*
The AIA (American Institute of Architects) has a web-site, a portion of which is devoted to requests for services. We used it several months ago and got many responses, several of them that were definitely worth pursuing.
In our area, the building department requires all plans to be drawn up and stamped by either an engineer or architect. I’m not sure how successful you would be in having plans created by a designer for later approval by an architect, unless the designer has an architect s/he works closely with. We are having a similar problem now. We wound up designing a home ourselves in conjunction with a timber framer, and are now scrambling to find an engineer/architect willing to review, “adopt” and approve the plans, which is a lot harder to do than we had anticipated.
A few suggestions –
1. Don’t consider any architect who bills based on a percentage of construction costs. This is silly, and provides a built-in incentive for him or her to design a more expensive home than you are willing to build. Almost all of the architects we spoke to worked on a fixed price basis, although there were a few who still do that percentage thing.
2. Don’t consider any architect who has not built homes of the style that you are interested in. We briefly employed an architect who designs beautiful, extremely modern homes for our Japanese-inspired timber frame home. Although it was a foolish decision, we did so because he integrates homes beautifully into the landscape, which is very important to us, he was extremely enthusiastic about working on our design and seemed to understand what we were looking for, and we had few other choices at the time. This was before we discovered the AIA site. It didn’t work out.
3. Make sure your architect is aware of your construction budget, and is willing to stick to it. We wasted several months with an architect who designed a home which would have been perfect other than the fact that it would probably would have cost almost 65% over our budget to build.
4. Make sure you are personally comfortable with the architect you choose, that you feel comfortable talking to him, that you feel he will handle your questions easily, and will not be insulted if you question his design decisions.
Hope you have better luck than us.
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I read an article that described in detail the main problems at Fallingwater.
First let me say that I admire the design.
The former owner used to call it "Leaking Buckets", and to this day when it rains they have to run around and put down towels and buckets.
But the principle problem is in the lack of reinforcing steel in may of the concrete decks. Apparently Wright grossly under-spec'ed the reinforcin. This was brought up by both the customer and the contractor repeatedly, but Wright refused to change it or review his plans. He finally threatened to walk off the job completely over it. The customer caved, but the contractor DOUBLED the amount of reinforcing against Wright's wishes. However, DOUBLE the amount spec'ed proved to still be not nearly enough, and to this day some of the decks sag up to and over 7". (not sure on what span, but hey, 7"). Now they are going to spend a few million to post-tension the decks by drilling them, inserting steel cable, and tensioning it.
Anyway, by now you may have guessed that I'm not the biggest fan of Frank Lloyd Wright. His designs were great, but if it doesn't stand up, is it really a building?
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Nick, do you think that having several million people wandering in and out of the house on those cantilevered decks for a couple of decades might have something to do with their failure? It is a weekend house, after all...
That said, I certainly understand the criticisms of Frank Lloyd Wright. But I am still a fan (much to my high Modernist mother's horror), and I was even lucky enough to study under one of his students. And, after all, the flat roof is the hallmark of mid-century modern, most of the architects used it, and most of them leaked.
But of course, I could be wrong... ;-)
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Lisa,
As an architecture graduate, is it acceptable to design a structure to lower standards if it's only supposed to be used on weekends?
I don't know if all the visitors contributed to the failure or not but I doubt it. There were't millions of people there at once, just a few at a time, few enough that the house should have been able to handle it.
*Don't forget that there are books and magazines of standard home designs. Particularly for something like a 2,500 s.f. ranch house, this might be a good starting point. If you find something you like, you can purchase the plans and then take them to a designer/architect for modifications. I think purchase prices are pretty reasonable, about $350 as I recall. It's a good way to see a lot of designs in a short period of time.
*
DANGER: Long post!!
What you need is a good architect (not a great one like FLW) who knows a good builder. They are both extremely hard to find, but find one and you'll likely find the other. If you have a wooded lot, then you want your own design, not a packaged plan out of a book. However, that is a great place to start your thinking process. And make no mistake, a good architect (and a good builder)will require you to make many decisions. Depending on the nature of your design, you might do well with just a custom builder. Get references and visit examples of his work. some building departments require architects to prepare plans for submittal. One phone call to the proper authority will give you this answer. Beware of anyone who already "knows what you want" and doesn't ask you a lot of questions. I also like the "What do they drive" theory. I've used this in deciding if I wanted to be employed by an architectural firm in the past. No Vettes, Beemer's or Porches, unless they are classics. Many architects use a large ego to hide inadequacies.
BTW, I am an architect; I drive a large SUV, and I like FLW in spite of his short comings.
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TerryB,
Yours is a good post. But only Joe would consider it long.
:-}
Rich Beckman
*Nick:I too admire many of FLW's works.As far as the structural integrity of Fallingwater, one of my favorite sayings is "when in doubt, make it stout!" A always build above code (not that I think there was any code to guide FLW on this project). On the other hand, considering Fallingwater was build in 1935, not sure my work will be 100% intact 65 years from now. I guess it depends on who maintains it.Where did you read the article on Fallingwater?I guess the situation makes a case for "an architect and an engineer are not the same thing". In my area, plans must be stamped by an licensed architect or a (licensed) Professional Engineer. Perhaps the talent of innovative thinking possessed by a great architect and used on a very unusual project, may not be "aligned" with the skills of a PE? I will bet though, that some architects think the skill that is possessed by a PE a subset of their own talent.I don't know squat about commercial construction, but I'm gonna guess that significant projects use both architects and PEs. Undoubtedly unnecessary on a conventional construction 2500 sq ft ranch.The way many custom homes are done around here is a design service draws up the plans and draws just a perimeter for a foundation, and leaves an extra, undetailed floor plan(s) for the PE firm to "mark up".The PE sizes steel, large headers (LVLs), and lays out/sizes the foundation piers/supports, and floor joists on these engineering sheets. He also specifies rafters, ridges, valleys, etc on the roof plan sheet. These stamped engineer sheets are what building inspectors go straight for during the framing inspection.On the other hand, in the original quarry Jack said "just need an architect that can design for the site" which is indeed what many design services and PEs possibly can't/don't deliver.
*Terry:Ever had the tires dirty on your SUV? ;^)
*I certainly don't have the right to judge an architect...any more than they have the right to judge my business or work. Hire someone who thinks in a way that you can invision helping the end cause...someone you get along with.L
*Matt - I read the article in the Philadelphia Inquirer about six months ago. Don't get me wrong, I really do admire his designs, and I realize that it is easy to criticize work done over sixty years ago, but I view Fallingwater more as concrete sculpture than as a practical building. The gist of the story I read (which seemed to have pretty accurate and well-researched information) was that the opportunity to correct the lack of sufficient reinforcing was presented repeatedly, and Wright chose not to heed other's advice.
*
Back to the FLWright discussion just for a minute, okay?
The criticisms are well founded. He was an extremely
stubborn man who would not be told what to do, whatsoever.
If you want to fault him for structural issues, consider
that his Imperial Hotel, built around 1920 in Tokyo, was a
massive structure that survived a devastating earthquake
there. It was one of very few buildings to remain standing.
Fallingwater was built as a weekend retreat. I disagree
with Mike's assessment that it is not a very livable house.
Inside, it is picturesque. There are views everywhere, and
so much built-in craftsmanship, it is only a matter of
overwhelming awe to look at it through a carpenter's eyes.
Well, that said, the man certainly had a lot of
disagreeable, offensive qualities about him, but his true
genius and energetic approach to design set him apart from
every single architect in history. There will never be
another with more influence, I can say that with confidence.
MD
From the land of Frank Lloyd Wright
xxx
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Hi Ryan,
Cutting in on this one. Yes weekend retreats definitely have different standards, unless they are designed by world class architects, then?
just a thought
joe
*Jack Gill, When you find an architect or designer, are you going to let him or her design it for you? Eventho a 2500 sf ranch sounds easy if it's a tract house, so much more is involved if it is truly custom designed. Siting, energy concerns, your personal tastes and comfort and all the other things that will come to mind when it's done and you start thinking about the I shoulda's. Think about this project hard unless of course it's just a stepping stone to another dwelling. And if it is one of many homes you plan to inhabit, don't forget to think resale.To get back to the beginning, 10 years ago my wife and daughter and I built our dream home. Seven years went by while we paid off the lot. That time was spent thinking, studying and planning. Then we took our ideas, wants, dislikes and room locations and size requests to an architect i had worked with in the past. He is a truly talented individual and usually designs for the client. He helped with siting and some solar situating and then took our ideas and made them fit into a beautiful 2 story. He engineered some of the structural and drew up the plans. He remarked once that it was a different feeling designing from the client. It was actually refreshing and he's since used some of the ideas he gleaned from this project.So, do you think there were any shoulda's? Hell yes, but not near as many as I've seen working for people that wished they woulda. Best of luck.Course, this is coming from a dumb carpenter.
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Terry B
Good advice.Well said. I don't suppose you live near the guy who originally posted this message...the one who needed an architect..not a lecture on FLW!!!
I admire FLW as well. It has been written that he was egotistical and designed for himself....right down to the lowered door headers...short man syndrome taken to the max perhaps???...regardless, he will no doubt remain one of the most widely known and admired "masters of modern architecture".
Signed
An FLW fan since childhood!
*Mark G.- Up to my axles, baby. I don't do do any rock crawling with it (the SUV) but I do enjoy getting out in the mud when I can (not as often as I like), job sites not included. Clean up afterwards is a pain, though. That clay sticks to everything.I think you nailed it when you said "I guess it depends on who maintains it." 50-60 years is a long time. Not to excuse FLW for his structural "omissions" though. His on-site apprentices have been known to beef up the structure on his buildings. On a church in Minnesota, FLW wanted no steel anywhere on the project, even if it did have a huge cantilevered roof. After unsucessful arguments with FLW, the apprentice and the General Contractor conspired to use concealed steel framing. FLW was in Arizona at Taliesien, so he would never know. This was only revealed after his death by the apprentice. Engineers and architects both should respect the limits of their ability in the others' profession. I use P.E.'s on 99% of my commercial projects and on residential, if it isn't a straight forward loading situation.Donna Smeaton- Thanks for the comments. Wright was a genius with a matching ego. In his case I think it was warranted. He was a "bear" to work with but I don't think he ever misled his clients about what they could expect. My only disappointment with FLW is how he treated his first wife and children.
*
Wondered if you think Ken Burn's PBS show on FLW was an accurate and fair one? How 'bout some thoughts on the state of residential architecture and architects ......seems to me that there is a real disconnect between some architects and the building process itself.
*the 50's modern ranches were the best-big overhangs,lots of light, open,flowing spaces, redwood or cedar vertical siding, they still look good to me, though they aren't popular,and they lacked respect for good insulation and heat.
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Any suggestions to help me find the right architect? I'm planning on meeting with several and would like to know how to compare them. Current plans are for a 2500 sf ranch on a wooded lot we've already purchased. I've got plenty of landscape consulting lined up, just need an architect that can design for the site.
*Look in the yellow pages under autocrat.