Hello all, I’m helping a relative build a shed, and he has chosen LP Smart Side panels for the siding and this shed will have 2 vinyl windows with a nailing fin.
I know the conditions and materials are not exactly ideal, but my question is what is the best way to install the windows with this siding?
Do we install the siding/sheathing like normal sheathing, cut out the RO, then use a high quality caulk on the back of the nailing fin followed by trim to cover the nailing fin?
I guess another option would be to nail the windows directly to the studs, install the siding/sheathing over the nailing fins, but that leaves no way (that I can think of) to keep water from running behind the siding. Maybe we could do use some Grace peel and stick to go from the nailing fin to the siding then cover that with trim?
Any thoughts or suggestions on this will be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Ryan
Edited to add: I wonder why the recent FHB article “Shortcuts to a Shed” did not cover window installation. If I remember correctly, the article showed Mr. Arnold cutting a RO for a window, but not the installation procedure. Seems sort of odd to not cover that.
Edited 5/22/2008 9:39 am ET by Ryan1
Replies
I am unfamiliar with the siding product you mention. Is it specifically intended to be used without, and in place of, wall sheathing?
I understand it comes in panels......but is this simply a matter of ease of installation? Or does it meet sheathing code as well?
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
You are correct. It is sheathing and siding in one panel, ala T-111. It is APA rated for structural use, here is a link to the LP site.
http://www.lpcorp.com/sidingtrim/lpsmartside/products/panel.aspx#panel-precision
I would be tempted to nail the fins directly to the studs so that when the siding is installed, it laps the fins and butts to the windows protrusion. (I'm assuming the fins are not flush with the exterior frame of the windows.) Use a good silicone caulk at this butt.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
That is a good idea, but I'm concerned that we would not be able to get the siding panels tight enough to the window to make a good caulk joint where the panel butts to the window, especially if a window lands in the middle of a panel. Thanks.
Window to studs.
Sheds generally don't have felt or water barrier (at least around here), but if you use it then apply it under the window flange .
Cut siding panel to leave 1/8"-1/4" all around the window,apply a bead of caulk to the flange just before applying siding, caulk the 1/8" gap after siding is applied.
Paint with quality paint.
There is simply no good way to deal with this short of relying on caulk for the final seal.
Thousands of homes have been built over the years using panelized siding doing exactly what I described. Fine Homebuilding it isn't , but it works.
You can apply trim around the windows and caulk behind it and around it
but that is still relying on caulk.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Gotcha. Like you said, ultimately there is no way to do it without relying on a caulk joint. That is what I was having a hard time getting my head wrapped around. Thanks. Anybody have any caulk recommendations? Geocel, Sikkens, PL...?
Any high quality caulk works as long as it is compatible with both the window material and then the paint is compatible with the caulk.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
kop-r-lastic or dymonic or mono 555.
Back in the day, any time we installed windows on houses w/ t-111, we installed over the siding, put wood drip edge on top, and caulked ( neatly ) with phenoseal. I did a detached garage with the siding you're using 9 years ago, and it still looks great, which actually surprises me, since it was a budgetary move done with the intention of covering down the road. Windows have never leaked a drop....
Bing
I've run into this same dilemma and I think I would nail the fins to the outside of the panel, use a peel-and-stick flashing and a wide trim detail.
There's a bunch of houses in my area that used T-111 as a siding and I can't recall what they used for window details. I'll have to stop and stare one day.
Great Jon, thanks. I had 2 people saying the same thing now you come in and say something different. Thanks! :^) LOL of course.
That is another way to do it, but with T-111 there are the grooves that channel water down behind the peel and stick and trim.
In an effort to deal with that I have seen and done small pieces of wood glued into the grooves to the height of the top of the header trim pieces. PITA factor is very high. There is no way effectively "shingle" panel siding no matter what approach one uses.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Excellent point about the grooves channeling water. I have actually thought about making some small blocks to fit the negative profile of the grooves in the siding, but the guy that I'm helping with this would have told me that I was absolutely crazy.Not to mention the huge PITA factor like you said.
.... use really narrow windows that fall between grooves....
:)
Oddball idea:
Install your siding first, and put a shallow saw-kerf over the window like a little dado. Flash the top of the window with aluminum and tuck it into the kerf, kind of like how bricks are flashed. Caulk the kerf; fill it right up to keep water from running it. Put wooden trim around the window to hide the flashing. Caulk that too.
You could do that on the sides as well, come to think of it.
I dunno. That might be a lot more work for very little extra benefit. And if the caulk fails, well, water could wick up into your siding and rot it.
That is not a bad idea Biff. Again though, we're depending on the caulk for a good installation. We don't have much of a choice right now, but I hate to rely on the ole "carpenter in a tube" to make this install water tight. Oh well, it is just a shed, but I do want it to last.
The thing about a shed is that most often, the framing is left open to the interior.
A good caulking job at the windows and doors and regular maintenance will keep all but the hardest driving rain out. The very small amount that may permiate on occassion, should quickly dry up without causing damage.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Good point. Thanks.
Biff's idea is the most full proof way of putting in the windows with the LP/TL-111 siding. Kind of like Z flashing between to sheets of siding. For caulk, PL Polyurethane Window, Door and Siding Sealant works great. Never had a problem when using PL.
Also, depending of the style of shed and it's roof a gutter over the windows helps too.
Flashing, smlashing.
For a single story outbuilding, I'm all about big overhangs - like so -
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Forrest - beginning to see a pattern
Edited 5/27/2008 8:50 pm ET by McDesign