Guess i need to post some pics… I’m still on my lofts project just got sidetracked this whole summer with filling up my shopping centers and doing the build outs ie: i can knock out a few firewalls in a week= new hvac… spliting electrical service..building new services ect… but when you have national long term tenants want’n to give you money every month for the next 5-10 years i tend to jump…
anyway last few weeks i’ve been pour’n /finish’n the interior 1st level concrete floors… all slick finished that will be scored and stained… I’ve done 10,000sf the last 2 weeks with 3 helpers… and a few nites where i stayed until 3am so i could get the hard slick finish i wanted… so i’ve (and my back) has seen as much concrete as i want for awhile (pour & finished my wine celler today was finished by 8pm) the ready mix company i use also does contract concrete work and i’ve known & worked with em for 15 years… so they ask if i want them to do/bid the second level… anyone but me do’n this looks good at this point….
the job:
10,000 sf INSIDE no obstructions except support posts on a 15′ x 16′ grid… each post has a guild that stays in place to pour to and set ur grade… they have to do zero form work… I’ve shot & marked the grade… 2″ thick pour lightweight concrete with fiber has to be pumped up… slick level finish on top of a vapor barrier…
should take em 62yards or less… @$92yd for lightweight with fiber and chemicals said he could do it in one day but would prefer to take 2 days so thats double the pumper cost…
today he calls with the price…since i’m a good guy and he knows me… 37k
$3+ a sf to pump place and finish… i hate to sound too tight but this would take me & my 3 unskilled guys 4 full days… where this guy can do it in 1 to 2 days but 30k labor… my back is feel’n better already… i honestly was expect’n about 5k labor on this…
this guy knows me, knows i have powerscreeders, trowl machines.ect… knows i do all but everything in house, tells me they have no work lined up… “would really like to pick up a job before christmas” and then shoots me a price like that… which one of us is stupid? me for not being in the “real world” or him for think’n i’m that stupid?
btw he’s done jobs for me and my finishing is better than his… mine just takes longer
thanks for any input… and let’n me vent
pony
Replies
Finisher we use charges $0.55/SF Canadian for floated finish concrete - labour only. Pretty typical rate around here. Pumper is $200/hr. You mentioned 62 yds @ $92/yd.
Concrete $5704
Pump Time 12 hrs $2400
Labour $5500
My bid $15,000
Something missing here? Control joints to cut? Poly to be laid? Rebar? Radiant heating tubes? 37K seems off the wall to me.
Wally
thanks... yeah i thought it or i was just way out of touch since we've been doing it all inhouse... nope no poly. no wire or rebar (fiber in the mix) no joints to cut... it's only a 14 ft lift and max disatance from pump would be about 40 ft... guy did call me back today and told me he sharpened his pencil and came up with 29,750... i really have no clue how he figured and at this point i'm pretty sure his dad (who ownes the readymix plant) told him never sell a job for less than $3 a sf...
thanks for the input...sometimes i just have to know if it's me or them thats nuts
pony
ill go with slys price. thats about what it would be around here. someone is making good christmas (oops I mean holiiday ) bonus
I forgot to ask, who supplies lighting and/or heat? Yes you should pay a little more for a winter pour, but this is an indoor job, it shouldn't be much of a premium. Certainly not 15K on top of a 15K job.
We just had finishers in to do 2400 SF of sidewalks with lots of control joints and they charged same rate as they have all year, but they asked me for 1 guy to run wheelbarrow plus I supplied insulated tarps and lighting. And they worked through snow flurries both pour days to get it done. I guess the difference would be this sub has probably done 300-400K of business with us this year, he's had plenty of time to make money with us. You've been doing your own finishing mostly and this guy obviously knows it if his dad owns the batch plant, so he figures this might be his only chance to make a buck off you. With those prices, he's guaranteeing it'll be the only chance he'll get.
Find someone else, or get yer rubber boots out once more.
WallyLignum est bonum.
thanks for the input... sometimes i just have to bounce some of this stuff off people who work with subs everyday... the area is closed in and already has temp lighting if the 27 windows don't supply enough... until last week we were still in t-shirts with days around 70 and nites down to 45-50.... this week it went to days @45-50 nites as low as 25... but this next week is look'n warmer... but i can heat it without a ton of trouble.... it's look'n like I'll hire a couple extra finishers and hire the pump... i've got one guy who has a 3" pump if i can track him down... last time he was $300 for the day
pony
started out with nothing...... and got most of it left
On a two day job, he just "sharpened his pencil" to the tune of 7k, that, in itself is a flashing red light that he has no concept of estimating or he is ripping you off. I think it's the latter.
i really have no clue how he figured and at this point i'm pretty sure his dad (who ownes the readymix plant) told him never sell a job for less than $3 a sf...
Sounds like some of the estimators here. Last time I needed finishing, 2- 2000 ft areas, I tried to explain to the guys how they could use one crew, one day, as the top pour was screeded and left at that. To a one, they all told me there was no way they could do 4000 sq ft- immediately after I told them how I thought it could be done. Turned out I wasn't wrong.
Pricing very similar to what you're looking at. Apparently you're better at finishing than I am, but we do it anyway. The one time I hired the "best", we ended up with a badly cracked product, my house. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
ok I'm Slow........
but i just got around to doing this pour...
took us 1 full week to set the forms... this pour was on a very unlevel second story wood floor... about 1.5 inch out from highest to lowest... so we poured from 1.5in deep to 3" deep... this is for 10 second floor loft units and a 65" x 120ft hallway we set the forms/screed guilds to where they would stay in place under the walls... except for 3 that were used then removed during the pour
whole area was cleaned and all voids filled with a portland mix... then 4mil poly... then #10 6x6 concrete wire (the 8 x 16 ft sheets) were placed... every form/screed/guild board was scribed to the uneven floor and checked with a lazer as it was set
planning the pour took 2 days... line'n up the finishing crew, the pumper truck... the ready mix ect...
pump truck & my crew were there @ 6am yesterday... i had one guy lag behind 20 min in case i needed him to pick up more labor... by 630 pipes & hoses were in place and everyone on the same page... ready mix trucks were 15- 20 min apart 1 1yd truck with grout to prime the pump... followed by 8 8 yd trucks and then one 3.5 yd truck
pump truck guy was great... knew what was up and a ton of help... rready mix plant sent great product (4000lb light weight mix spec'd for the pump) had a crew of 6 finishers and me... 2 trowl machines and everyone was gone except me by about 6:30 pm... i did a few final finish passes over the slab (made it shine) so i was there until 8:15pm
total costs
pump truck $1003.00
concrete $6897.00
labor $2765.00
misc... ice, cups, coffee, lunch, water, cokes, beer.... $100.00
not too bad... as this will be scored & stained for the finished floor
notes... a 4" pump hose filled with concrete is heavy
I placed a few boards with shims in several places on the first floor just to see what kinda sag/weight i was put'n on the structure... today i ck'd em... all slid out by hand.. none were any tighter than when i placed em...
i know u guys are think'n my projects sure move slow...
well... ur right
pony
ok I'm Slow........
but i just got around to doing this pour... (thursday)
took us 1 full week to set the forms... this pour was on a very unlevel second story wood floor... about 1.5 inch out from highest to lowest... so we poured from 1.5in deep to 3" deep... this is for 10 second floor loft units and a 65" x 120ft hallway we set the forms/screed guilds to where they would stay in place under the walls... except for 3 that were used then removed during the pour
whole area was cleaned and all voids filled with a portland mix... then 4mil poly... then #10 6x6 concrete wire (the 8 x 16 ft sheets) were placed... every form/screed/guild board was scribed to the uneven floor and checked with a lazer as it was set
planning the pour took 2 days... line'n up the finishing crew, the pumper truck... the ready mix ect...
pump truck & my crew were there @ 6am yesterday... i had one guy lag behind 20 min in case i needed him to pick up more labor... by 630 pipes & hoses were in place and everyone on the same page... ready mix trucks were 15- 20 min apart 1 1yd truck with grout to prime the pump... followed by 8 8 yd trucks and then one 3.5 yd truck
pump truck guy was great... knew what was up and a ton of help... rready mix plant sent great product (4000lb light weight mix spec'd for the pump) had a crew of 6 finishers and me... 2 trowl machines and everyone was gone except me by about 6:30 pm... i did a few final finish passes over the slab (made it shine) so i was there until 8:15pm
total costs
pump truck $1003.00
concrete $6897.00
labor $2765.00
misc... ice, cups, coffee, lunch, water, cokes, beer.... $100.00
not too bad... as this will be scored & stained for the finished floor
notes... a 4" pump hose filled with concrete is heavy
I placed a few boards with shims in several places on the first floor just to see what kinda sag/weight i was put'n on the structure... today i ck'd em... all slid out by hand.. none were any tighter than when i placed em...
i know u guys are think'n my projects sure move slow...
well... ur right
pony
U may B slough but you make up for it in volumn.Just don't send me two invoices for the same job, I ain't gonna pay you twice, LOL
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
i just subscribe to "the natural order of things..." i prefer to only do the same job once if i can at all help it
p :)