Greetings-
I am building some cherry cabinets for our kitchen….What type of finish product do you recommend to use? I would like a low sheen finish that holds up well to steam, cleaning, and is tough and won’t wear through easily…but won’t look thick and plastic-like…Any suggestions? Many Thanks- Bill
Skim-coating with joint compound covers texture, renews old drywall and plaster, and leaves smooth surfaces ready to paint.
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Replies
Waterlox
or a wipe-on poly
FWW did a test in a recent issue.
Minwax was a top choice.
Mr. T. MOTOL
"I think natural selection must have greatly rewarded the ability to reassure oneself in a crisis with complete bull$hit."
I'm Swiss!
Waterlox, General, McCloskeys wipe on Tung Oil. The first few coats will satin, but you can build up to a higher sheen. Tung Oil is varnish based.
-zen
"Tung Oil is varnish based"Tung Oil is TUNG OIL, no more, no less.Now Tung Oil FINISHES can be anything. Either a wiping varnish or an oil/varnish blend. And the amount of tung oil can be from 1 drop to much more.IIRC Flexnor shows pictures of different tung oil products that are in each catagory.
Bill,
You are probably right, Rockler had a bottle of pure tung oil. Its the only one Ive seen.
My info came directly from Jeff Jewitt, and Paul S at Homestead finishing while trying to figure out that issue.
Many tung oil bottles dont identify their suspension, and I even found one with Urethane, not varnish.
If you could direct me to the source you mentioned I would appreciate it.
-zen
Bob Flexner's (Flexnor) book, Understanding Wood Finishes. He has a test in it to determine if a product is a oil/varnish or wiping varish.I have not "talked" to Jeff in along time, since he got his own forums.But if I remember he agress.The problem is that while Tung Oil is a very specific product (a pure oil) it is more often as a marketing name for finishes and when people talk about it everyone assume that the other person is talking about the same "tung oil".
Bill,
I hope I didnt come across as stand- offish. I am just learning about the product myself.
I thought I recognized that name, I couldnt place it. I read that book a year ago, and I saw there is a new expanded edition. I learned a lot in that. I was talking in knots about how mind blowing all the possible clear finishes there are... you could get a Doctorate in clear coat.
Im reworking a raised panel cherry kitchen island, transforming it from an L shape to an I, chopped it down 4 inches added a couple of new cabs, ripped off tile work on the serving top and replaced it with a 15"x70"x 1 3/4 cherry slab. The butcher block work area, I cut in half and the other half is going to be marble. So I have a old wood/ new wood finishing job to put together. After consulting the builder from 13 years ago, I spent weeks trying to find McCloskeys Tung. I got it out of Miami and have been coating parts and the slab. Im going to add a coat to the panel work this weekend.
This is the worst juggling act I have every done. Ive been more like a GC then a craftsman. I think its probably my best work as well though, even though the client wants to lynch me because it is taking so long. Then add the weather and the drying times have tripled.
Anywho. I think Im going to try to post pics when Im finished.
One cool think I learned from Jeff about the tung is that if you use a few coats it looks soft like teak oil, and as you build the coats up the varnish appears. The guys in knots have been giving me suggestions as I go on the slab, and 6-8 coats is the great luster range. Im hitting coat 5 tonight.
-zen.
I used conversion varnish on my cherry cabinets, very durable, as easy to apply as laquer, satin sheen, very easy to introduce a glaze or pigment. My cabinets went through a seven coat process though... 1. seal coat, 2. stain wipe, 3. seal coat, 4. black antique wipe, 5. seal coat, 6. glazing coat, 7. final seal coat.
Probably more than you want, but the effect was what we wanted, and the application was easy. here' s a pic of one cabinets.
Good luck
Phil
WoW!!!Awsome work! What brand of finish coat and base coat did you use? Some people have suggested a Sherwin Williams product called Aqua Lac....or something like that...a water based lac....Yikes...terrific finish...I now have something to aim for!Thanks!Bill
It's Sherwin Williams, Conversion varnish, it comes with a catalyst, very durable, same satin sheen as laquer, sands easily and tints well. Used for all sealing and glazing coats. Talk to your local supplier, ask your local cabinet shops what the're using. Thats how I clued in.Good luckPhilyou can get an idea of sheen w/ this photo. Compare the sheen on granite.
Phil-
Fantastic work! How about giving us a list of steps and specific materials used?
You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
It might be worth mentioning that conversion varnish can be pretty toxic if you're not equipped to really deal with it. If you can spray and if you're a relative newbie, I'd suggest visiting http://www.targetcoatings.com and take a look at their product called USL. It's a waterborne finish that is durable and poses a lot less risk when using it. Another similar product is Sherman Williams Kem Aqua. If you intend to brush this finish, Waterlox is a great choice.
It's been a couple of years since project was done. But it was Sherwin Williams conversion varnish (KemVar is the name today) as well as their wiping stain (cherry). All doors, panels and pieces were sprayed on a spin table or platform towards a vented wall (blast wall I call it) It will make your eyes water!!! respirators required, a remote ventillation mask would have been nice. Step 1. Benite raw door. 2. Apply wiping stain. 3. Sand raised grain. 4. Apply first coat C-V (clear). 5. Sand. 6. Wipe / brush in black acrylic
into crevaces and corners. 7. Second C-V coat (clear) 8. Sand. 9. Spray glaze coat (C-V + brown annalyne dye) 10. Sand 11. apply C-V top coat (clear).Thats basically how it was done.Phil
Thanks much!You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
Wow...amazing...do you do this line of work for a living ....or was it a side project? I have a Vented paint room...but not a spinning table...Should I make one? The finish seems flawless...how long do you have before the coating sets up? Would the aqua wet product look as nice...or how would the Lox stuff look?Thanks!Bill
Sometimes I do this kind of work for a living. These are at my house. Definitely make a spin table!!! Spinning your piece is a lot easier than walking around it! In my case, I plop the spin table in front of the blast wall and direct the paint over the piece at the wall. Depending on the product you use, you could hit all inside edges and sides of a cabinet door, spin 90°, hit the next set of edges, Spin 90°, and so on... then come back and hit the faces. Pick it up w/ your finger tips from below and place it on your racks. Never used the water based product. I've gotten greedy and come back to sand after 3 hours from the last application.... almost like lacquer.Phil
How do you handle the backs of the doors?You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
Can I ask about the countertop? (I know I'm pulling you away from the finishing subject)
Most small shops use conversion varnish for this use. Hard, available as a low sheen and easy to apply with spray equipment and the most durable finish appliable outside of an industrial environment. Sherwin Williams makes a very good one. aloha, mike
Conversion Varnish (CV) is what most shops use for kitchen cabinets. Sherwin-Williams makes one popular type, as does M.L. Campbell. I just want to caution you that CV can be a difficult finish to apply. It has to be sprayed on, and should be done in a proper spray booth. It is very flammable and pretty nasty. Definitely wear a respirator. It also has some particular aspects... it requires 70 degree temperature for at least 24-48 hours to cure properly. It also should not be applied in more than a 5 mil dry film thickness or it may crack. It does not "melt in" like conventional laquer, so the spray application has to be just about perfect. It basically uses mechanical adhesion to previous coats instead of a chemical adhesion, unless it is re-spayed in the re-coat window. My suggestion is to go to http://www.woodweb.com and look in their finishing forum. Search for "conversion varnish", and you will find hours of reading that may help you decide whether or not CV is right for you.