Just wanted to know which would be a better approach to use on applying a finish on some doors and trimwork. I stained all the doors today and am going for a gloss finish. I don’t want to do more than 2 coats, so I was hoping I could get some opinions as to which is better. Two coats of gloss varnish or a sanding sealer and one coat of gloss varnish? Appreciate any input. Also are there any good water based varnish or Urethanes that are as good as the nasty smellin’ stuff? 🙂
Thanks
Mic
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I just did some jambs and casing with lacquer. I put three coats on the same day. It dried real smooth and smelled good. I used water-based once and it left the wood all rough and milky so I don't recommend it. Polyurethane takes longer to dry and is not as smooth as lacquer.
Did you know that you are suppose to have a 5 mill of lacquer on your product . So I don`t understand, Because it is two sanding sealer and two final coats, But you have too sand in between coatsso you don`t trap moisture. Because if you don`t you will be doing it all over again. I know because I had ot do it and it suck.cooman
No. I didn't know it had to be a certain thickness. I wouldn't even know how to measure that. All I'm saying is mine looked real good and I didn't have to sand. Where does the moisture come from?
There is a mill gauge that you can get at a paint store. A mill gauge tells you thickness of the lacquer going down on your product wet. So when it is wet take the mill gauge press it to the wet surface, The gauge looks like teeth and when you press down on liquid form it is ridged with mill #'s. Moistuer is traped in between the first and second coat, if you don`t fine sand with 320 sand paper. And wipe gently with lacquer thinner.Cooman,Thank you
Theres some interesting notions that float up around here from time to time, but that moisture gets trapped between lacquer layers - - that's an all time prize winner. Whoever told you that is jerkin your leg so hard they're liable to dislocate it."Sometimes when I consider what tremendous consequences come from little things, I am tempted to think -- there are no little things" - Bruce Barton
One problem that can occur under lacquer is trapped solvent. Comes from a mismatch of sanding sealer, lacquer, and substrate. Chemist for the mfg. (RM) clued me in on the problem. He was horrified we'd used their lacquer on wood. Been going on for years.
I went to work for a builder here who had ~30 upscale kitchens with a water-spotting problem from it. Seems the lacquer never cured properly. The only one that got fixed was the one I made, and researched the problem. Changed the sanding sealer from there on out. Bosses refused to change the lacquer. Gotta admit, sure was easy to use.
Possibly cooman was thinking about blush, which is a water problem. Not exactly entrapped. Nor difficult to fix. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Perhaps. But he didnt say anything about blush, and I didnt think he was referring to that since he said moisture got trapped IF you didnt sand, which is absurd.
Blush is ambient moisture from the air that gets introduced to the finish film during the application process, or more rarely, condenses on it when the solvents flash off. If the film skins rapidly, it is possible that the moisture will remain trapped and cloud the lacquer, which is easily resolved by either misting a coat of lacquer thinner over the surface which solves it a great deal of the time, or better yet, prevent it by using a retarder thinner which is compatible with the lacquer one is spraying.
I've not ever come across trapped solvent. The solvent would prevent the lacquer from being able to skin. As in a nitro lacquer the solvent will remelt a cured coat, it stands to reason that the solvent would find its way out by keeping the film soft until it had flashed off. In catalyzed varieties, the solvent is holding the whole thing in suspension and keeping it from undergoing a reaction. It needs to basically be gone for that reaction to occur.
In your example, its great you found a fix, but I suspect that the blush was an application error.
And please, I am not trying to poo poo anyone. My initial concern was someone who didnt know any better would come along and put stock in what was said and have problems because of it. "Sometimes when I consider what tremendous consequences come from little things, I am tempted to think -- there are no little things" - Bruce Barton
You're right. He said trapped moisture, which blush isn't exactly. One of the things that was truly great about that RM (non-catalyzed) lacquer was it's almost impossiblility of blushing, even with horrendous spraying conditions. Automotive product not intended for wood. Full line of compatible solvents.
The trapped solvent, according to the RM chemist, went into the wood, through the sanding sealer and disrupted the lacquer skin formation as you suggest. I was on the search after the first kitchen I sprayed got complaints within 2 days of move-in. Tracked down the chemist in Ohio as I was assurred by my bosses that they'd never, ever, had that problem before. "Must have changed the formulation."
Nope, same formula the whole time they'd been using the product. After I later had the opportunity to visit several of their older houses I learned that every one of them had the same problem. Either unreported by the HO, or ignored by the bosses. The one where I know the HOs complained, nothing was fixed. I later built a new house for him, after establishing a great working relationship. Before listing I wiped down his cabinets with solvent, which eliminated (briefly) the water-spotting.
No idea what the new owners did. The fix, from RM, was to top coat with catalyzed lacquer. Worked the one time I applied it. Nasty stuff to work with, didn't want a second opportunity.
My initial concern was someone who didnt know any better would come along and put stock in what was said and have problems because of it.
That's what's great about a forum like this. Enough expertise around to challenge what looks like a wrong assumption. While we all learn.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
You can use almost anything you want. I'd go with whatever you're most comfortable with that you can get the end result you want. Nitro lacquer, a cup gun or airless is going to give you a very smooth finish. I've used a great deal of waterbornes, and they're hard as sin but you almost have to use a pressure pot to get good and consistant results. But they dry clear and the Kem Aqua I've grown fond of is just shy of bulletproof when cured. You can use a varnish if all you have at your disposal is a brush. Thin it with naptha, brush it once, dont go over it again, dont touch it for 24 hours and it should lay fine. If you mess with it, you'll have just that, a mess. Poly is a kind of varnish, I'd definately cut that down, mineral spirits, same applies with brushing. You're probably more than 2 coats to get the gloss you want.
Or, sub it to someone who does it all day anyway. They can blast it with a pre cat and you get gloss, durable, and fast all at once. Just not sweat equity.
"Sometimes when I consider what tremendous consequences come from little things, I am tempted to think -- there are no little things" - Bruce Barton