I just built a rather large house and I have miles of trim and doors and windows to finish. My plan was to spray the stain and lacquer. I plan to make a good sized spray booth in the basement but it will not be possible to vent it properly and so Ill have to use water based products.
I checked with Minwax on their new water based stains. They said the product has never been tested in a spray system so they could not advise me one way or another. Also, I understand that water based lacquer does not produce the same finish as the regular but you can add a dye to give it a little life.
I want to use a HVLP system along with an air brush for the smaller items.If I do this with a brush and a rag it will take me years to finish properly and I dont have that kind of patience anymore.
Any and all advice will be appreciated. Thanks
Mike Mcnally
Replies
Several things can help you here. I'm not a fan of spraying stain since the end result stains your tear ducts, your nostrils, and your ear lobes. If you have a large run to do, get a lambs wool pad $8 or so at Sherwin Williams and use that. I can stain about 400 lineal foot of base in an hour pretty easily with one of them. Don't saturate the thing, just get the end wet and use the rest to spread it out. Sawhorses are a huge bonus here.
I'm not an expert on waterborne but did a hoop of research on it around here this week for similar reasons to what you're asking. The guys I talk to like it, one shop is now using it exclusively, but they all agree with your comment of the blue hue, and yes you can counteract that with dye or use a stain that's a little more red than you intend the end result to be. They also comment that it takes some time and practice to get "proficient" at spraying it without developing significant orange peel. One said they like using pads to apply waterborne - the little edging things you get for cutting around trim with paint. He seemed to think that on flat surfaces that was almost as fast as the gun and may be an option to pursue. This of course would depend on how intricate the profile you're using. I wouldn't spray regular lacquer in your basement, which you probably already realise. Any chance of renting a spray booth from an auto shop for a few hours? Or maybe you could just sub the finish coats to a finishing operation. Would suspect you'd pay about 30-40 cents per foot for that if all they're doing is shooting lacquer.
Mike,
I just recently completed a custom home that we prefinished much of the trimwork with M.L. Campbell's Ultrastar Water-borne Clear Laquer, applied with an airless sprayer w/ fine finish double atomizing tip. I've had bad experiences with water based finishes before, but had heard good things about this finish from a few people. I was very impressed with it, even using it over a light colored stain {minwax's water based stain}. I didn't see any of the "blueing" typical with most water based finishes. You do have to be carefull about getting an orange peel texture. I originally was spraying outside, in the sun, and as temperatures rose, orange peel started due to the finish drying so rapidly. It does dry very quickly even when not exposed to heat and sun. You can easilly stain and finish in one day. Overall, I would recommend it, and have to some of our painters.
Bish.
I've had pretty good results using oil-based stains (Ben-Moore) and finish off with a water based finish. I've been reluctant to try water based stains, but, when doing "natural" finishes on nice wood, wanted the 'amber' effect of a varnish or polyurethane and achieved that using a "Natural" stain. (I used Ben-Moores stain, but I think Minwax or most others would suffice as long as it's fully cured before doing the topcoats).
Like another post, I think you'd find it worthwhile in the long run to do the staining the old-fashioned way.
We never prestain or prefinish the trim. We stain in place, and shoot lacquer(the real stuff) out of an airless. To much moving trim around, gets dinged, gets dinged cutting, fitting etc. Just the way we always do it. We've tried some water based, to much grain raising, not quite the finish of 3 coats of sealer and 3 finish coats.
I have been reluctant to use water based finishes but now love them when used with a HVLP sprayer/
First when staining,practice on the actual woods. very likely you will have different wood in the trim (oak, maple, walnut etc) and the sash, muntins, etc are probable soft wood. I would first try to make my own extensions, sills out of the same kind of wood as the trim. The soft wood will take stain differently and very likely be splochy. Use sander sealer first to get an even stain or dye job. Match it with the trim stain. You may have to coat some twice or dilute the stain. If you dilute the stain keep track of what you did in case you need more.
I like water borne finishes. I use mostly Apolo. I start out with gloss finish. Water base will dry in about 30 minutes and be ready for a second coat. Final coat with satin. Satin or no gloss is made that way from gloss by adding something like calcium carbonate that breaks up the light as it hits the surface and appears to dull it. The satin on the final coat gives a similiar look as if you used satin on all three coats but you don't have as much obstructing the clearness to the pretty grain. When you use something like satin be sure to stir each time or the flattener will be in the last of the bucket and make you sad (I did a 15 step of stripping, staining and finishing a set of mahogany doors and ended with last of the satin in the gallon and ruined the doors so I had to strip and begin over)
Sand lightly between finishes. If you really want an extra ordinary appearance you can rub down with fine pumace.
I always give a coat of wax last.
After hanging find a wax stick that matches and fill the nail holes.
If you are using walnut,water base finish does not do it justice. However, spraying acoat of shellac first brings out the grain and then the walnut looks much better.
My favorite walnut finish, however, is linseed oil, then shellac, then gloss finish rubbed down with two grades of pummice, then rottenstone followed by wax.
Any of these sounds involved, but you will be surprised when you use water based finish and shellac (shellac being alcohol based and since alcohol mixes with both water and oil it makes a good way to mix water and oil) how fast it goes and how many steps you can do in a short time. Richard
Richard
HAVE PAINTED FOR 23 YEARS SO I HAVE CROSSED THIS BRIDGE BEFORE.I AGREE WITH MIKE ON THE CHANCE OF DAMAGE BEING DONE IN MOVING AND TOUCHING UP AFTER ANY OF THESE PROCESSES IS DARN NEAR IMPOSSIBLE TO DO CORRECTLY.I USE OIL STAIN AND FAST AND FAST ACRYLIC POLY ON ALL OF THIS TYPE OF WORK WITH VERY GOOD RESULTS AND NO DISCOLORATION AFTER TIME
Thanks for all the info on this topic. I havent quite decided on how I will tackle the job but in the long run it will be a mix of all your inputs.This sure is some site, you can get info on any problem one comes up against.