Well, today was one of those days.
I had to step away from the job for awhile and when I got back I found out that one of my friends and one of my better helpers had gotten mad and threw not one but three blocks and another worker. The other worker admitted that he was picking with him even after being asked to stop. But, the other worker was standing on top of a 10′ wall running string with no ceiling joist on the house. If he would have gotten hit he would have came down.
I have not heard my frineds side of the story, but I imagine that no matter what the reason I have no choice but to let him go.
I think this will be the suckiest thing that I have done to date.
Replies
Well, let him know its serious, hear him out, then go home and sleep on it before you make a final decision.
As foreman, I once had to fire the most popular guy on the crew - he was a nice guy, and funny too. But a little too "smart-####", and he kept screwing up, and costing us. I asked him repeatedly what the problem was, if he was going through problems at home, health problems, what was it. Nothing. Finally I had to let him go. I felt bad, and told him I hated doing it. He ranted and raved and cussed the company owner out, and I said Why? This was my idea, not his.
Anyway, next day I expected a lot of resentment from the crew. Instead they thanked me, said that he was goofing off so much it made it hard for them to concentrate on work, but they didn't want to say anything because he was everyone's friend.
Other times I've bent over backwards to work with a problem employee, when I knew he had issues outside the work place that he was struggling with. And they'll usually appreciate it, and work harder as a result.
So make your best call, and stand by your decision. I'm sure you'll do the right thing.
Seems to me the one doing the picking should be disciplined in some way also.
couple three days off without pay to cool down and de3cide how to apologize.
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The other guys not getting off easy.
The two guys have a history of picking on each other.
Sometimes they both laugh and sometimes they both get mad.
But the biggest risk that I see is that if I keep him and down the road this happens again when I'm not around, and that time the blocks don't miss.
I'm going to have a hard time explaining to the homeowner about the blood stains on the floor.
I do think that maybe a week off may be a good idea.
But I just can't seem to justify the tring to knock the guy off the wall.
I admit that this is probably esier for me to say than for you to do, but I think your right about the seriousness of trying to knock somone off of a building, it just shows immotional immaturity and i dont think that there is room for that on the jobsite. We all work too damn close with eachother and i gaurantee somthing will happen again that will make him just as mad. Imagine if they had been standing right next to eachother on the edge of that roof. one of them could have broken his neck, and seud you.I would suggest getting his side of the story, listening very well, showing respect for what he has to say.. And if he convinces you that it was somwhat reasonable, tell him that if he ever looses his temper and lets things get phisical at work, ever, even in a relatively harmless way. youre firing him on the spot because (blah blah blah).. But if doesent convince you that it was somwhat reasonable, painfull as it might be, fire him.good luck with a challenging situation and let us know what happens______________________________________________
--> measure once / scribble several lines / spend some time figuring out wich scribble / cut the wrong line / get mad
Have you considered a lesser penalty first? Like, say, giving him a week off to think about it, then discussing the entire thing after everyone has had a chance to cool down a bit? Might be a way to help him grow, keep a good man, and not lose any sense of authority.
That other guy, the one who was pushing his buttons, I'd be giving his value to the company some close scrutiny, too. Good natured joshing is one thing. Sounds like he crossed way over the line and became verbally abusive. That's not respecting co-wotrkers. Not okay.
I agree with Jim about giving some thought to what you are going to do about the other guy.
Perhaps you might call both of them into a meeting and hear them both out, get everything out into the open. then make a desision regarding what consequences they may have incurred via you.
I also like the suggestion of giving it a few days of "mulling over" before making any permanent decisions.
I also failed to mention that the guy that threw the blocks is a pastor. I hate to even add that to the discussion but it does add a demented sort of sick humor to the topic.
I also suspect that there is a issue with the preachers family that added stress to the preachers day and to that situation. but I'm also speculating I don't know for sure.
But earlier in the day the roles were reversed after the other guy made a mistake and my friend poked fun at him. But at least there was no block throwing.
Haven't we all tried to kill at least one idiot on the job site in our careers?
Maybe the guy was justified.
Pastors can be aholes too ... sometimes they need kncoked off a 10 ft wall to find out they ain't god ...
Then .. on the other hand ... my plumber told me about firing his best guy. The guy he started the company with ... both wifes best friends ... worked together 10 years ...
the guy wanted more money ... the owner told him to take more responsibility ...
he did .. then slacked ... got demoted to his old salery ... then started trying to steal customers ... while still working on the job ...
Owner told him one day after the drive home ... see, they even rode to work together .... Sorry Buddy, yer fired. Give me the van and shop keys ...
Guy mouthed off ... threw the keys ... took a swing.
Next thing ya know the guy had to beat up his former best friend who he just fired!
He did municipal work for the boro ... the cops ... who knew them both ... for like the last 10 years ... were really confused when they showed.
Get's ugly out there ...
btw .. I'd fire the Pator ... why's he up on a wall and not at church. I'd bet he's the real problem ... ask the crew ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Sorry if I didn't make it clear, The pastor was on the ground throwing the blocks.
And he says that he works so that he can practice humility, but that he doesn't really have to for money.
well that certainly complicates things ...
a pastor with anger management problems ... that's working to achieve humility!
ok ... I've changed my betting stratagy ... but still pick the pastor.
He's got issues ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
He sure ain't mature enough to be anyone's 'pastor'
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
The pastors motivation for working is not money. Therefore you really have no leverage with him to make him toe the line. What punishment could you possibly give him, that was lawful, to influence his behavior?
A little humility is what he's striving for. Give him that. Spell it humiliation.
Fire his sorry azz. In front of the whole crew.
Let him hang his head in shame. On the 6 o'clock news. Pastor arrested for assault.
One more thing, I do know how the other shoe fits. I once worked with a guy that I picked at. He got mad and threw a 16' 2x4 at me. And I did push him to it.
That guy now works for me.
Abouit the Pastor thing. I am a pastor myself at a church in CA. Hey, we are human too. I have seen other pastors just about lose their salvation over the smallest thing! :) I would not let that be any part of the decision process. I agree with the week off, and then have a heavy tailgate meeting. Why didn't the third guy try to stop any of it? Perhaps ALL should be punished in some way. It may help to keep all accountable to each other. THey should all be a team out there....especially when you aren't there......just my couple pennies worth....RASKO
to all,
I would fire 'em both, don't even give it a second thought----and don't lose a minutes sleep.
The dude is NOT your friend---or he wouldn't be acting that way on YOUR job.
By NOT firing 'em you are condoning their behavior which may well come back to bite you in the rear.
If this EVER happens again---it's TOTALLY your fault.
I can't believe it, but I am agreeing with Brownbag------you have your company to think of---not these dillholes.
What the hell, are we in 3rd grade here or what?????? Fire 'em both
Stephen
horseplay will get somebody hurt and then it comes out of your workman comp. in which, will take years to pay down . Like Barney Fipe said 'nip it in the bud" Fire both of them. The company is always first
Kyle, it sounds like you have to reign in the mouths.
A wise old man once told me that "words hit harder than fists".
Every man has his breaking point and your two goons know how to push the right buttons.
I'd hear both sides before I sent anyone packing.
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
I had a similar issue a few years ago.I let one have a few days to cool down and gave tjhe verbal instigator a stern lecture.Which went in one ear and out the other.The other kid is still with me, though it take spatience to keep him around and productive.The instigator is not missed by anyone.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Juveniles!!
I remember getting in/seeing fights on the playground at school.
The gym teacher (monitor) would make us stand face to face touching noses, and he would check up on us often.
Took the edge off the anger pretty quick.
Eric
I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
Last time I worked with my brother on a job we pulled pistols. And I would have shot him if it wasn't in a populated area. He's one of the very few people that knows the very button to hit.
When you get guys that pick and harrass like that you have to stop it. It seems like you've got the classic threes a crowd thing happening. They'll mess with whoever you hire. Fire the least valuable of the two. A good talking to will just unite them more against the other guy.
Who Dares Wins.
you should be fired too!______________________________________________
--> measure once / scribble several lines / spend some time figuring out wich scribble / cut the wrong line / get mad
I fired myself. Good enough.Who Dares Wins.
but the real question is, " What if somebody got hurt, got hurt real bad" The company would be liable.
man... this was the best line of posts I've read in a long time... still laugh'n... i understand try'n to shoot your brother... my older brother works for me... kinda sorta... ie: my business... he runs it... (not well) and i ask zero questions... some fights aren't worth fighting (yeah i use to run it and i left so he'd still have a job)
weird how one day someone will laugh at something and the next day same situation they want to fight... guys can usually fight one wins or no one does and then you go eat lunch... women can't do that they'll still be just as mad 6 years from now...
had a pastor friend kinda sorta... was buy'n some equipment from me for his boss... wanted me to "up the invoice so he could make a few dollars" hell i gave him a blank invoice and told him to have at it... i have no idea what he did but after 10 years it's the first thought i have of him everytime i see him... before that i thought pretty highly of him...
I'd have to say fire the pastor... for no other reason than....IF he ever does something like that again it could really fry you... because you knew he was nuts and still let him work for you... I'd rather be the other guys lawyer than yours at that point....
pony
besides,there's nothing like gettin' fired to teach you humility
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"there's nothing like gettin' fired to teach you humility"
Now THAT is funny!
just doin' the lords work here ... now go on ... get!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
you know theere's two parts to funny, don't you?Truth and timingone without the other is no phun
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Had a similar situation last year. Two 20 something's working heavy equipment. Most days, it was playful joking, but every once in a while, it got to verbal abuse. One day it was bulldozer against backhoe. That clinched it. In this case, had to seperate them on opposite ends of a one lane trail through the woods, with me in between them. After a couple days, they agreed to hold down the hassles, and since have became the best of friends. Still, on a job site, there can be no room for personality conflicts - In our case, it was too easy to find your self armed with a chainsaw, or something hydraulic. I can't tolerate horseplay when you find yourself depending on the decisions and actions of a co-worker.
Good story Little Denny. You forgot to say what won..the hoe or the dozer.
I'd put my money on the hoe. I like the speed and the reach. But..if that dozer could ever get the hoe into the corner....
This sounds like a good movie...
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Suppose, at first glance, this would play as a B level movie on late night TV. The reality of it was that they were merely aimed at each other, never actually got to touchy, feely. Luckily, I managed to defuse it before either got too carried away. It helped a bit that I had a full, brushcaged tracked loader to drive in between the two. (Now that I think about it, I might not try that trick again)
But if I were a betting man, and the hoe was planted, it would have won. The backhoe weighed as much as this little dozer did, and with the extendahoe, had a much better reach. But, from the backhoe's side, your right, the dozer was capable of defending its honor. Had a full brush cage on it, so was relatively immune to the backhoe's wide bucket, at least from the front.
Think I can get movie rights to the idea, and retire from the land clearing biz?
I can empathize.
I used to work with my brother when my dad ran the company.
One day my brother got me so mad I damn near threw him off the roof- probably would have if my dad wasn't around.
A year or so later I fell off a roof and broke my back- sometimes I think it was karma.
Musta been one of those Houston jobsites where you were carrying pistols in yer toolbelt.
LOL.
"I was glad that when everything finally hit the fan I was holed up in a little beer joint in Robstown, Texas called the El Gato Negro."
I kind of would go for the time out, explaining that if that doesn't work, that people are going to be fired.
BTW, the one guy was throwing block at a guy on top of a 10' wall? Thats a pretty good arm!
Kyle......Noone else on the crew stepped forward to do anything? Maybe theres a 3rd party involved . Iwould tell them to take it off the job and get it fixed or don't come back to work and if you do fix it I want both of you infront of me talking and that I am putting out the word that I am looking for replacements now.
If the guy had gone off the wall and broken his back, how would the authorities have treated the incident? How would it have affected your workmen's comp?
This is a serious problem and indicates a serious judgmental shortcoming on the part of the thrower. In our society, we just don't do that kind of thing. I can understand if someone pushes somebody to the point where someone gets punched in the nose, but this is completely different.
Let him go.
Physical violence against your own brother. Using potentially deadly force. Shame, shame.
Hehehehe. DanT
Hell you should have seen the knife fight in Philly in the hotel. Much worse then a stand down with pistols.Who Dares Wins.
I think i would can both of them. No need for any of that garbage on the work site.