Sorry about this long post. . .Working on another bathroom remodel. I’ve already taken it down to the studs. Bathroom is a very typical 5′ x 8′, with a tub along the 5′ far exteror wall and the entrace into the bathroom is on the other 5′ wall.
I have taken out the original 28″ hollow door and its metal frame and will replace it with a 28″ pre-hung door available from the local HD. Pretty standard stuff, except it seems that since the metal frame was used in the original construction, it required the rough opening to be only 29 1/4″ inches. The pre-hung doors available at HD typically require a rough opening of about 29’3/4 or 30″.
This is a bearing wall located on the second (and top) floor with a 4 x 12 header above the door frame. There are four roof trusses visable in this bathroom, 2 of the trusses rest along the lengths of the 8′ walls and the other two rest and intersect along the on top of 5′ wall. In the span of 5′, the wall where the door is located has about 5 studs, in addition to the two king and two jack studs, (i.e. 9 studs in total)
I know that the correct way to rectify this is to reframe the RO, install a larger header, etc and there is room to do this if I must. I’m looking for an easier solution if it exists of which I may not know about. For example is there a Simpson connector that could be used and take the place of one of the jack studs? Or, what if I remove the jack studs, rip 3/8″ of material off of both of them, and re-install. Either of these solutions would give me the RO I need. Of course structure safety is paramount, but wanted to know if other options exist.
Thanks,
Tark
Replies
In situations like yours, I will usually rip out the 2x liner on both sides and replace it with 5/4 pine.
That will gain you 1/4" to 3/8" on each side, which should be plenty.
I'm a carpenter, not a structural engineer, but my feeling is that this shouldn't compromise the wall, especially on the second floor.
Shep,Thanks for the response. I was hoping a solution such of what you've described could be used.Tark
Tark, quite often, a 10# adjuster (sledge) , along with a spreader cut to 30" will move that rough frame enough to fit in the door. I'd try my adjuster first. I've never met a frame that wouldn't move 1/4".
blue
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Hi blue_eyed_devil,Certainly a sledge would move the framing, but then the header would not be fully supported too well. Not certain what a spreader is, sounds like something that would push things apart. . .have I missed something. . .
Tark, you're not missing anything...you're just not thinking about everything...
You already agreed that a 5/4 replacement for the 2x4 stud was an acceptable solution. How much bearing do you have with a 5/4 board? I'm guessing....1.25".
How much bearing will you have if you bang the frame over1/4"? I'm guessing....1.25".
The end result is the same...our methods are just different.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
OK, I get it. Thanks,Tark
Tark, I suggested the spreader because sometimes after you've loosed up the drywall nails and glue, a spreader will easily open the frame up with just a regular hammer.
Other times the persuader is called in...don't worry about hitting it hard...wood doesn't bruise.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
When I run into a problem like that I can usually replace one or both trim studs with a 1x4 and here in california it is 100% legal (at least in my area) Sacramento. It will save you 3/4 inch on each side
The Simpson HH4 is designed to support a header without trimmer studs. Page 139 of the current catalog.
You could also do what others are suggesting, either remove and replace the trimmers with thinner material, or beat the shi!t out of the framing until it moves over. I personally have a distaste for the latter and would probably just shore the ceiling for a few minutes while I move a couple of studs and replace the header.
What tells you that the trusses are bearing on the wall with the door in it? With trusses the problem is often the opposite... uplift of the bottom chords when the roof is loaded.
Also, what's going on in the floor? Solid blocking? Studs aligned with joists below?
Davidmeiland,I'll check out the HH4, but it sounds like I'm better off replacing the jack stud(s) with thinner material as was recommended. I'm just glad to hear that there is another solution, rather then replacing the header. I won't pretend to understand trusses, (kind of why I stick to kitchen and bathroom remodels), yet at first glance my only reason for thinking that the trusses rested on this wall was simply that it had a double top plate, there were 9 studs in a space of 5' of wall, and the header above the door was a 4 x 12 material. Even if my assumption is incorrect, I wanted to leave the wall as strong as it was, even if it was not needed. 30 - 40 years from now, when the next person tears into this bathroom, I'd like them to think of what an elegant solution was thought of. . .Again, thanks so much for the infoTark
Don't worry about the header, you only need 3/4" bearing on each trimmer (cripple)
Is it really a bearing wall??? If I understand everything correctly ( emphasize IF), the wall with the door is only 8' from the exterior wall. There are only two trusses bearing on this header ( what type of trusses, do you know or can you tell....I guess they could be girder trusses). 4"x12" header for a ~30" opening, thats definately a heavy duty header ( at least it seems to me).
Was just wondering/ hoping maybe dont have to worry about the load bearing ( just got done reading through Mike Geurtins's, and Blues kinda, thread "Minimalist Framing - Skippin studs, ...." (in construction techniques, thread 50520.1), thinking about how much overbuilding we may be doing, etc). But I guess to really know what you could do you would have to get a structural eng. in, and thats more time, more money, etc.
Good luck,
m2akita
Like M2AKITA, I doubt this is a bearing wall.
Sounds like it's open to the trusses above. If the wall is a bearing wall, there's will be a web in the truss that hits the wall at that point.
Also - A bearing wall would have to have something under it - A beam or something below the floor system.
Any chance we could get a picture?