There was a post by AJ-NZ (i think) about how to easily uncover a rocked-over outlet box. So, what’s the best way to patch an outlet that has been cut too big by a bozo with a new rotozip?
I’m sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
There was a post by AJ-NZ (i think) about how to easily uncover a rocked-over outlet box. So, what’s the best way to patch an outlet that has been cut too big by a bozo with a new rotozip?
I’m sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
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Replies
The BEST way is to cut out a 16x16 piece and replace, this time cut a little closer to the box
How big an gap?
You can just flat tape over it. But I don't have enough experience to know how big a gap that you can fill that way.
If the gap is VERY large, say 3/4" or larger, I'll hotmud the edge(s) with 5 minute hot mud to form a bit of a solid base and make it flat with the plane of the DW surface, and then flat tape it as per your suggestion. Although in a pinch there were times I didn't have hot mud, so I used regular mud, HEAVY, then taped. Worked fine, had to work at it a lot more, though, but I prefer hot mud to make a quick goof patch so that it's one less area I need to come back and revisit while I"m taping.
And if it is REALLY REALLY big, swap the single gang box for a double gang...Anyway, why paper tape instead of fiberglass? I would think mesh tape would offer some support within the gap.BTW, I believe there is a firecode standard that requires no more than 1/8" (or maybe it is 1/16") on each side. I presume this is to limit the feed of oxygen. So small gaps should be caulked.
I would think mesh tape would offer some support within the gap.
Ugggh, not the fiberglass mesh tape issue....I despise that stuf with a passion. Others swear by it, in my head I see big issues, not for this thread of course. I like paper because I am guaranteed a good smooth first and subsequent coats of mud. Mesh always "blisters" or "beads" the mud in the meshes the first coat or two. But, if one must use mesh, they may do so, I won't argue it. :)
What is "hot mud" ? I'm familiar with good old plaster of paris and 5 gallon buckets of dw compound. I know there's a dry mix "Spackle" (another oldie) and what we call 45 minute powder for drywall compound. Which are you calling the "hot mud"?
Hot mud is fast-drying joint compound, like SmoothSet 20, for example.
Huck mud is not a fast "drying", but a setting type of compound.It CURES by a chemical reaction, instead of drying.
Thanks, Bill. Yes, SmoothSet 20 is a "setting type" compound. But it dries fast.
"You can buy all different speeds (drying time) of hot mud, any where from 5 to 210 minute." (quote from DrywallSchool.Com). 5 - 210 minutes drying time. I call that fast drying.
edited to add: That's HOT mud I'm talking 'bout. HUCK mud is a whole 'nuther thang!
Edited 6/1/2005 8:22 pm ET by Huck
And the chemical reaction is exothermic, meaning it is one of the relatively few chemical reactions that PRODUCES heat rather than requiring heat to activate it.Hence the term HOT mud.
There are other ways that are not "the best way". I have done many of them, and won't say much more except to say, use durabond setting type compound and paper tape to enhance the chance of your repair holding up.
The best way is the simplest way where you rely on the outlet faceplate to cover the goofs. But, you gotta help hide the goof first.
What I always do is two of two things. First I will run mud around the cutout, then DW tape on each side of the box where the cutout is too big and won't be hidden by the faceplate. I run the tape OVER the box edge somewhat when taping. Then I do my normal finishing work. When I get to that area, I just mud right over the box. Sure you get globs of mud in the box to knock out later, but it's perfect, you can't tell the box was cut too big and the faceplate is really resting over top the DW tape. Come back later with your knife and cut out the dried up mud and trim the DW tape to fit closer to the edge to mimic the DW edge you would have had if the "bozo" didn't make the goof. I get TONS of compliments from HOs who do a bad hang/cut job like you mentioned only to have them GLOWING with glee that I magically was able to fix their unfortunate goof.
I have used the method you descibe for at least 25 years or longer.
It is particularly easy at the rough in stage of the electric work. I gets a little more tricky when you have to fix those oops as part of the punch phase, aster the devices are installed, but can be done.
Dave
Another tip on fixing these goofs: Use a foam gun to lay a bead of foam stuck to the side of the box, and let it cure. This then contains your hot mud from filling the stud bay when you pack the gap full. Another vote here for paper tape over mesh for flat taping box oopses.
The key to using paper tape is to make sure that there is mud on the back of the tape. Put the mud on the back of the tape, then put it over the patch, instead of putting the mud on the patch and applying the tape. That way once the mud hardens on the tape it spans any gaps that you have behind it. If you don't do it this way then you will get blisters when you mud over it anywhere there is a gap.
Bill, the foam application is an excellent idea. I never thought of that. Brilliant idea, I will have to remember that. Of course, if you don't use a can of that stuff up it goes bad, so it's not like you can use a can and store it for a small oops. Seems a waste. I think I'll try it next time and ask the HO if they happen to know of any air leaks in their house they'd like to plug so I can use more of the can up for them :)
You could use the DAP latex foam. It has a long life, but it is very soft. Don't know if would for for this, but worth a try.
Pyrotechie,The trick is to own a needle gun. It is controllable, and always ready to go. The single use cans are ok in a pinch, but you need to group tasks, which isn't always possible/practical. I have had bad luck with Hilti needle guns, BTW. Current model is by Pageris.BillPS I love foam.
Searching the net, I found the gun. But since I haven't seen one, I'm not sure how it works. Does it use a can, or is the foam provided by another source? (http://doityourself.com/store/9364449.htm)
Here is one source. They have both a kit with the gun and foam and separate cans of foam.http://www.energyfederation.org/consumer/default.php/cPath/21_28But there are other suppliers. Shelter Supply is one.
So...(excuse my dumb questions), then you can use one can repeatedly, without problems of plugging up? If its not aerosol, what powers it?
I have never used one. So I am interested in others responding.
Hiya Huck,The foam gun I use is fed from cans that hold anywhere from 24 to 32 ounces (weight) of foam, depending on brand. The can-to-gun interface is standardized, so Todal foam fits the Hilti gun, Hilti foam fits the Pageris gun, and so on.Once the foam can is screwed onto the gun, it stays there until empty. The gun is always ready to go. Unlock the trigger and you have foam at the ready. Let off the trigger and it stops instantly.You only use what you need, and the rest is ready to use an hour, a day, or a month later. I can sign my name in letters an inch high, and dot the i, all with foam from the gun. The fine control means less waste and less trimming. It also cures somewhat faster than the foam from the single-use cans.Bill
Edited 6/2/2005 12:02 am ET by Bill
Thanks, Bill, that's exactly the kind of info I was looking for (and why I love coming to BreakTime). I like the foam, but get frustrated with the wasteful overkill (I always end up with a grapefruit-sized glob), and the fact that the cans are only really good for one application. Sounds like I need to step up to the next level!
the cans are only really good for one application. It's the nozzle that's only good for one shot, cuz the foam cures inside the tube. The can can be used several times.
If I am doing a job that requires more than one can of foam, I try to use the same nozzel on several cans so I can save clean nozzels for later.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Edited 6/2/2005 7:51 am ET by Ed Hilton
Dending on the size of the gap, Ill use smoothset real thick to fill the hole let it dry then sand and reapply it with some thinned smoothset to finish the wall. Ill take some paper on larger gaps push it into the hole for backing and larger yet use the wood as a backer and smoothset it....
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PS I love foam.
Ya love foam, eh? LOL I have to wonder if you saw that one house someone built, out West I think, he built it all out of cans of spray foam. Talk about loving foam. Geesh. It was in an FHB issue on the back cover a few years ago.
One guy I do work for on occasion is always spray foaming the @#%@ out of everything. Small cracks, big cracks, a little here a little there....he numbs my mind with how crazy about the stuff he is. You two should get together and chummy up :)
If you mud right over the box that's connected with flex or conduit, stuff it with something. Not to keep the mud out of the box that's not much of a problem, but conduit and flex are a pain to clean out or pull wire through. I've used the stick behind the wall method and it works.
Another method is to cut a piece of drywall larger than the hole, score the back to the size of the hole and remove the gypsum leaving the flaps of paper. mud the back, slap it in place, press it down flat then mud over the top like its tape.
I gets a little more tricky when you have to fix those oops as part of the punch phase, aster the devices are installed
Quite VERY VERY true. I hate it when you think an oops will be covered by the faceplate only to discover even a hairline view of the ooops no matter which way you move the receptacle on the wall in the slots. It's a lot of work to cover even hairline ooops. Sure they make what I call "ooppps plates" but they look pretty dumb with one oops plate and the rest normal size.
Seriously, if I question it I just fill it in with mud so I don't get caught having to drag the tools out to do a 3 minute patch.
put a scrap of wood (1x2 or comparable) behind the hole, and run some sheetrock screws in at either end. Then you have something to screw your patch onto.
View Image
Edited 5/30/2005 2:04 am ET by Huck
Good suggestion, great graphic. What program did you do the graphic with?Leon Jester
thanks, Microsoft Paint (came with Windows 98)
does this go along with the thread about your DW hanging woes?
Jeez Ed ..if it werent for ur rockers we wouldnt have anything to read.Sounds like its been more fun than humans are allowed and Ive been there with renegade dryrockers.
Yep, this is directly related to the bozos.
I installed an outlet box in the ceiling so I could pass the fan& light wires through. Dang if they didn't manage to cut through the romex cover and the primary insulation of both conductors with the rotozip ... and they did it so close to the back of the box that the romex is no longer useable.
I hooked up with a young kid ... about 20 I think ... who was a union apprentice out of state and moved back here to be with his mom. He's good. Fluid motions. Good hands. We (he & I) think that all the hispanic sins can be covered over.
We used some plastic flex corner bead, and he adhered it with spray adhesive, then a piece of mesh tape on both sides, followed by mud.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Out here they sell premade perforated aluminum plates with adhesive backed fiberglass tape made for this type of goof and that fits perfectly over a single gang box. Peel off the backing, apply the plate, hit it with mud. If the goof is several inches from the box, I do as Huck suggested and insert wood backer for the drywall patch. The patches are $5-6 per.