I’m in the unfortunate situation of fixing/finishing the work of a contractor who did a poor job and then fled the scene.
One quandary I have is that there are a couple of locations where we have Hardie plank on walls that end at roofing. From what I can tell, contractor used a single piece of flashing along the whole intersection. Flashing is L-shaped with legs behind the Hardie and under the roofing.
From what I’ve read at the APA site, step flashing is the best way to do this (http://www.apawood.org/images/bbh_details/Roof11ab.jpg). I guess my question is, since fixing this seems like it’ll take pulling up some of the roofing and taking off some of the siding, how bad is the current install?
It’s just another one of the details I wish I’d been paying closer attention to when it was being done. Fortunately, I was very attentive on the window and door flashing, so I feel good about that.
Thanks!
Replies
Have any photos?
Step flashing is probably the way to go when a wall interesects a sloped roof. If it was a shed roof going up to a wall, then the continuous metal flashing would be fine. If your going to rip off the siding and some roofing to tackle this, some flexible rubber flashing such as Grace Vycor/Ice and water shield would afford some extra protection when installed beneath the flashing, housewrap and siding.
Just my 2 cents, hope that helps
Yep, it's wall-to-sloped-roof.
I will take a couple of photos and add them this evening.
If you're lucky you can slide the step flashing up under the siding without having to remove it. Depends on how much space there is between the bottom of the siding and the roof. And a "shingle thief" will allow you to remove nails in the shingles without too much damage, so you can slide the flashing under the shingles.
Note that if siding ends much closer than about 2" from the roof then that's generally bad -- moisture will tend to get into the bottom edge of the siding too easily. So you may need to remove the siding anyway, to fix that problem. PITA, since you have to remove several pieces due to the slope.
DanH- I looked online and didn't find a "shingle thief." Did find a "slate ripper," though. Is that what you're talking about? Anyone have a suggestion for where to find one for under $75?
Yeah, "shingle ripper" is the term they use online. I suppose "shingle thief" isn't PC somehow.http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=142016-1431-640&lpage=noneCheaper than a slate ripper, I suspect.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
I bought a shingle ripper from Harbor Freight a couple years ago, as I recall it was $9.95 or so; you may want to check them out if there's a store near you.
I say fix it. It's not that difficult a job assuming the roof isn't too steep and access isn't too difficult. It will leak unless there's some big overhang that keeps water away from the wall. As DanH says, you may be lucky and can slip the step flashing under the siding, perhaps just notching a few where there are nails in the way. The drawing you attached shows 2" between the siding and the roof, which I think is a good idea, but if you have 1" I'd leave it as is. Anything less and it's hard to get the flashing under the siding. Most likely, given the poor flashing job, they have continued the siding all the way down to the shingles. In that case, you have to cut it back if there's anything there that can rot.
What's interesting about your drawing is they show nailing the step flashing directly to the roof above the shingles. Didn't we just have a thread here where someone said don't do that because it causes the other end of the flashing to stick up? They said to put that nail into the top edge of the shingle. Or maybe I saw it somewhere else.
I'm going to attempt to attach a couple of photos.
One place is where the addition ties into the existing roof. These boards are close to full length. The others are short little pieces where the roof over our porch ties into the main gable of the addition.
Yeah, the siding was cut too close. And, given the problems you can see, I'd bet that the valley is improperly done too.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
The area under the eave in the second picture is so well protected by the eave that it's probably the least critical to fix. Most important to fix the area just uphill where the valley meets the eave -- likely that area is screwed up pretty badly.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
From my experience with fixing this same type of flashing detail, I'd recommend the following.
1. Go with the step flashing. If you can't find any pre-made steps, you can cut your own from 4"X5" L flashing that is widely available. The length of the flashing should equal the covered area of each shingle, i.e. for a three tab, seven inches of flashing assuming a 5" reveal.
2. Depending on how much roof cement was used to bond the existing shingles to the existing flashing, you may be better off just removing and discarding the shingles tied to the flashing instead of fighting the roof cement.
3. I would recommend that the shingles not be installed tight to the turn in the step flashing. Leave a 3/4" to 1" gap to allow rain, leaves, etc. to exit the roof without getting caught.
4. I would also recommend, as have others, that the hardie also be cut back off of the shingles. The Hardie-Plank installation specs. will give you the best recommendation as to the correct gap to leave.
5. The step flashing only needs one nail in each piece and that goes in the upper roof side corner of the flashing through the shingle and into the sheathing. Even in hurricane country where I work, I've found that there is no need to apply roof cement anywhere near correctly installed step flashing.
6. Be sure that the first piece of step flashing that you install at the eave is bent, extended, and/or placed so that the runoff is carried over the first course of siding below the eave. This does not appear to have been done in the photos that were provided.
Good luck.
Edited 8/17/2006 10:03 pm ET by Craftsman1510
Thanks for all the feedback. Not what I wanted to hear, b/c this is going to be (yet another) pain to fix, but if that's the deal, so be it.
I don't know if you've taken a look at the hardiplank installation instructions (ain't the web great!). Under "kickout" they have a great diagram of how to flash situations like yours. Sadly, they do recommend a 2" gap between the siding and the roof. Cutting that gap is going to be the hardest part (be sure to wear something to protect your lungs). A battery-powered circular saw would probably be the best tool. You might want to create a little jig to fill in the ups and downs in the siding as you cut.
I can really understand your frustration. It doesn't really take much longer to do the job right the first time, but it sure beats retrofitting. Still, once you cut back the siding, and get a little practice raising the shingles and removing the nails, I think you'll find this a reasonably easy, if not enjoyable, job.
Caveat: I have to say that the advice you're getting here is definitely "FineHomebuilding". My guess is there are a zillion homes built exactly like yours (the photos you posted could have been of my own house), and the chances are you could go 10 or maybe even 20 years before the damage was apparent, depending, of course, on how much rain you get, how much tree debris you get, and prevailing winds.
Thanks, Mike. I've definitely read over the Hardie instructions. I'm having to finish the siding on a shed, and found that they used a 5 1/2" reveal on the 6 1/4" boards, rather than 5". And all of the siding was put up with a 15-16 ga. finish nailer.
Yeah, it just kills me when the instructions are out there from the mfr. and he just didn't even bother to read or follow them. This is just one item on a long list where that's the case.