have a client who used flecto jell stain & flecto satin verathane on house full of doors a have to hang for her. 1 set of bifolds has a white look to the finish as if there was white paint in tthe verathane . mfg says it will go away with time.
another set has a semigloss apperance same can of verathane . does any one haave any idea as to cause and a proposed remedy.I wonder if material froze before or aafter purchase it went down to -20 here during that time .new can of material seems ok
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If your customer failed to stir that can of satin poly well enough, at all, or often enough then all or an disproportionate amount of the contained stearates would be settled to the bottom of the can. This would result in exactly what you are describing. If this is the case..........it will not go away in time. Well, it would if you waited long enough for all the finish to wear off the doors.
If its the waterbase flecto the temp definately has something to with it unless he set it in a bucket of warm water prior to useing it.
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Granted, point well taken, and that's something I should've thought of but didn't. To err is human? It's Sunday morning......need I say more?Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
thanks for the advice re flecto . what do you feel would be the best way to salvage the screwed up door , re stain and end up darker or what any ideas.
Well now, that's a matter of opinion to some degree. It depends upon what you're (or the client) willingly to live with and what manner of equipment and experience you have at your disposal.
If an oil-based product was used, I suppose one could add more layers of material in an attempt to disguise the underlying problem. You could take a simple approach of this nature by layering some Minwax Polyshades over the top of things , but you certainly would end up darker by the time you'd disguised things. I've never been a big fan of Polyshades as the few times I've used it and those things I've seen it used upon usually come out streaky if it's applied with a brush. I have had pretty acceptable results if I sprayed it, but it always seems to take forever to dry and cure. I'm afraid that if you take this added color layer approach, they'll be no wood grain left to see as it'll all be buried under that layering.
You could add a bit of color with fX dye concentrate from Woodfinishing Supplies.com to some dewaxed shellac and shoot this over the top to add the color. This, however, is a technique that takes some practice to master usually, as it's easy to get things too dark in a hurry. The color needs to be made up somewhat weak and then brought up to final color by applying several coats of the material. You could then apply more poly over the top. Again, the wood grain is likely to be substantially obscured by the time you get all the layering done, although it depends upon how dark of a color you need to use to hide the current situation. If you try this, the upside is that if it gets too dark on you it can be removed with some denatured alcohol and you can try again. Warning……make certain your poly has had at least two weeks to cure in a heated environment or the alcohol could soften its surface and that wouldn't be desirable at all. A month would be the safest amount of time to wait because there's always the chance that those initial coats of poly may never cure properly if buried under additional coats of shellac and more poly.
Much as I hate to say it, I guess if it was mine, I'd probably bite the bullet, strip the doors that are in question and refinish. Ugh. But if you try one of these other possibilities and it doesn't come out aesthetically acceptable, you've wasted more time and materials and now you've that many more layers of stuff to strip off. Sometimes, backing up immediately is the most direct route to forward progress.
I don't know if you've run this by the folks over at Knots (I haven't looked yet), but maybe someone over there could suggest some other helpful notions from a similar distasteful experience.
Edit - You haven't said whether this was an oil or water-borne product. I haven't used any Flecto for years and don't know if they have a water-borne product or not. If this is a water-borne poly, then there's always the chance that the cloudiness is the result of a thicker coat that is still holding internal moisture and that would stand a chance of remedying itself. There's a limit as to final film thickness with water-borne products and if this has been exceeded, it may or may not resolve itself. Only time will tell. My guess is that if it hasn't cleared up in two weeks, it probably won't.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Edited 3/16/2003 9:06:06 PM ET by GOLDHILLER
In answer to your question, the client used an oil based product. The doors are hollow core colonial with an embossed wood grain finish. As a result, I was concerned with stripping the doors due to the skins being probably only masonite with an oak stain on it.
I was curious as to your opinion in using non oak for the jambs and trims as local supply of clear pine has knots in it and finger joint would show through. I was thinking of trying to use either MDF or even poplar for the jambs with colonial pine for the trim. The HO has ability to do art work for a hobby therefore she could paint graining on the jambs to imitate oak in this case or do you have a better idea to get around the high cost of oak.
The reason for all this effort is that the HOs had me brick their entire house (8m) last year plus build front verandah 6 x 50' of plastic and all the work is t&m and have future ongoing requirements and are not difficult to work with.
Any ideas you can contribute would be appreciated.
"local supply of clear pine has knots in it" !!! I've seen this phenomenon myself. :-)
It's kinda starting to sound like you're embarking on a venture to save $25 in materials by investing $100 of time and labor. I try to avoid situations where I have to simulate one wood with another whenever possible and so my portfolio of tips and tricks may be less than those who do faux graining on a regular basis.
Coloration and color matching is an arena in which I have much more experience. On that note, I would warn you (if you don't already know) that poplar, like pine, is prone to splotching when stained using normal approaches. I'd at the very least advise that you continue with the gel stain as this will help avoid some of that splotching. Anymore, I normally color poplar by shooting a clear coat of cat-lacquer followed by color coats of shading and toning lacquer (usually made up from Mohawk's base coat product plus a touch of lacquer as a binder) and then follow that with my clear topcoats. Or if poly is the final coat of choice, I'd seal with blonde shellac, color is achieved with toned shellac (fx dye or similar) and then topcoat with poly. Using either of these techniques, there is no splotching and you have complete control of the resulting color. (That's not always good because if you blow it, you can't blame it on the wood or the stain manufacturer)
All in all, I'd advise you to find and pop for the real deal ………probably the pine if the casings will be pine.
I'll tag a pic here of poplar colored with toning lacquer. Note that in the office pic, the color I was shooting for is that of the window casings. That very splotchy bit of door casing you can see was colored many years ago with an oil-based stain applied directly to the wood. Not so pleasing by my standards. There is much poplar in a similar condition to that door casing in this home and refinishing it all is one of this summer's projects.
Come to think of it, if you stained your pine and poplar both with a oil-based stain directly on the wood, you might end up with matching splotchy pieces. Not sure if splotchy is desirable or acceptable to your client, but it might help you get a better blend.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Is it "Diamond" Flecto? I hate that even though I use the Flecto Polyurethane Professional. Water based poly is overrated in my world as it appears softer, milky til dry and just funky in general. I never use the water based product only the solvent based stuff. Using heat to dry out the whiteness is an uneven at best effort. Time should cure the problem. Stick with the solvent type.