I’ve got a guy I CANNOT convince to lay a real floor. He wants a quote on installing this new-fangled ‘Floating’ flooring. Normally I’d just turn him down, but circumstances force my hand.
Has anybody got any guidelines for me on installation time per SF on this stuff? I should mention he insists I install it directly on top of industrial carpet glued to the floor (one a slab, the other plywood subfloor)–and says, of course, that the ‘counselor’ at Reno-Depot (kinda like an HD) where he bought the stuff told him that will work. He WILL sign off on this though–I’m hungry, not suicidal.
Traps or tricks for the installation itself are also welcome….
Dinosaur
‘Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Replies
Did one a couple of weeks ago...easy to lay, complete no brainer. I would estimate that you could do 30-40 square feet an hour but it really depends on the area that has to be covered. I don't know about laying it over a carpet, you have to be careful about the amount of flex in the joint.
CC
Thanks--based on 30SF/hr it comes out to about what I'd 'guess'timated, so that's good to have a confirmation.
Question: How did your chop-saw blade like cutting that stuff? It's basically Arborite (Formica in the states) which is usually pretty rough on cutting edges. Should I include a blade charge with the estimate? An Exchange-a-blade deal on a 12" triple-chip blade here is about $75.
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
do not lay over carpet, any time saved will be lost with the pile catching in the groove, also on anything other than closed pile there will be a lot of flex, use the manufactures underlay.
with regards to cutting, cut from the back with a fine tooth blade.
its easy to lay, we lay a fair bit of it here in london UK, but is only a cheap floor and i have seen the pattern wear off with 4-5 years of fairly heavy use in a kitchen, tell your client to go for real wood
If you were to roll out a layer of kraft paper on top of the carpet, the joints wouldn't catch on the fibers. But in any case I can't imagine what the end result will be...I would expect that there will be enough flex in the carpet that the tongue will snap off in high traffic areas.Do it right, or do it twice.
The flooring it's self can break / crack.
i would imagine you may get sound from the paper when you walk on the floor. it would be like walking on old newspaper
Even if this guy is willing to "sign off" on laying it over the carpet, we're missing one crucial thing: your reputation. If this client is so hard headed he won't listen to his contractor, he'll also absolutely drag your name thorugh the mud after it fails. He may not have legal recourse, but he'll blame you for it to everyone he knows...conveniently forgetting it is at his insistance. I'd say RUN AWAY!
I'd toss in a sharpening. I didn't have a laminate blade and it made quitck work of my cut-off ATB blade. I'd use a laminate blade next time. Bring along a couple of good jigsaw blades as well (I used the DeWalt fine cut blades and they were great).
Good luck.
CC
I did a self-install of edge glued Pergo before the click-lock stuff came out.
No need to invest in a expensive blade or wearing out a nice one.
Just make sure the cut ends are against the wall.
Likewise if you are unfortunate enough to have to rip one.
It's best to stick with the factory edges for butting together.
Did this when I didn't own a chop saw or anything fancy.
Grabbed an old Black and Decker sidewinder with whatever blade was on it.
Do wear eye protection and glove/long sleeve shirt.
The extremely hard particles that shoot out when cutting can really sting.
Although we have hardwood floors in our current home, laminates really get a bum rap from 'purists'.
I know several families who are very happy with their laminate floors, and most of them don't wear outdoor shoes in the house.
dont worry too much about the blade, all cuts shuold be covered with new trim any way, use your best crosscut blade before its due for sharpening. it sure will be afterwards
Dino,
Tough situation to be in. Another reason to overbook. Hey were like the airlines, we have to. Just explain it to your customers on the first meeting.
Pergo type laminate over carpet? I'd wanna see that in the manufactures specs even if they signed off on it. Doesn't mean he can't find a way to pin it on you.
I had a customer who wanted pergo over very uneven tile, kind of like saltillo. Luckily I was able to talk them into tearing up the tile and installing hardwood. But he was convinced it would be fine based on the home depot associates advice.
I'd eat beans for a few days and pass on this one.
Tom
You WILL ruin a blade on the job. include the price of a new blade in your figures. That Pergoesque stuff is murder on a saw blade. Over carpet, forget it.
If you do the job and it is the glue-less type with a locking t&g type edge, be very careful when locking them together that you dont torque, tweak, twist the pieces. they MUST go in paralell and square to one another whild going together or a small piece of the finish will break off the corner. Hard to explain, easy to experience.
The basic installation method is simple, just figure that you'll make some mistakes on the first one and order material accordingly.
CH
I think you convinced me I was right in the first place. But I've got a feeling I'm not gonna convince him....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
When in doubt, sub it out. Find someone who does a lot of these. He will be able to tell you if there is a problem with this situation.
I charge the same rate for laminate flooring as I do hardwood floors. In central Wisconsin thats $2.50 / sq. ft. That's installation labor not finishing. After initial set up and preliminary glueing and drying of the first few rows it goes pretty quick but those first few hours drag on.
I'd be vary wary about laying the floor on carpet. I'd definately have him sign a contract that insulates you from future problems that might arise. My guess is that the product warranty will be void unless layed on the provided foam pad.
Dave
If a tree falls in the woods and nobody hears it is it still lumber?
Edited 6/17/2003 12:57:44 AM ET by Dave
That 2.50 per SF--does that include materials? How many SF do you lay in an hour, on average? Would it be the same rate for glueless as for glued?
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
$2.50 / sq. ft. does not include materials for laminate floors. The glue and underlayment are namebrand and therefore priced way too high to be included. A guy could add it all in I suppose. The labor charge does however include hardware and underlayment for hardwood floors. Since materials are not included in the sq. footage labor price, I would not change the rate whether using glue or snap flooring. Like I said, once you get past the first two rows, which have to be perfectly straight and the glue must set up, either floor goes down fast. If you make a few more bucks for your time with the snap flooring then so be it. I charge what the average flooring place charges per sq. ft. to be competative but also not to undersell myself.
I don't know off-hand my average laytime per sq. ft. on the laminates but with hardwood flooring @ 2.50 / sq. ft. I pull in ~$55.00 / hour or 25 sq. ft. per hour. I assume that laminates are in the same ballpark.
Dave
If a tree falls in the woods and nobody hears it is it still lumber?
Thanks for the info; it's all grist for the mill.
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
as for your saw blade, find a blade that has a triple chip grind. Using a crosscut( alternating bevel) will ruin it. Its better to use a non-ferrous metal saw blade then a normal crosscut if you cant find the melamine blade. The difference i believe is only the degree of the negative hook versus the melamine blade.
Thanks, everybody--I sent in the estimate last night, and got a reply by e-mail today. He's going with another contractor--we were the same price; we both told the customer he had to pull his carpet and put down the right underlayment; but the other guy can start tomorrow and I can't start for 3½ weeks.
How it goes is how it goes. This just means I can move up the pebbled parging job--if I can find the #$%?& pebbles....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Do you know the other contractor? It would be interesting to talk with him after the job is complete and get his feedback.Do it right, or do it twice.
I don't know who it is. I might find out while he's in there if I drive by, but from what the client wrote, I think it's a friend of his from 'in town'.
It's probably just as well; I recognize the HO as the type of customer I don't usually do work for: a real-estate broker who buys, fixes up fast and flashy but no substance, and then sells after two years (so he doesn't have to pay capital gains tax on the sales profit). Most of my customers are long-time owners who need repairs on their cottage or want an addition or kitchen or bath reno. I do get people who have just bought a new cottage and want to trim it out to their taste, but you can tell the difference between someone who's fixing it up for themselves, and wants it done right for the long term, and someone who's already planning to sell it before the ink is dry on the deed.
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?