I have recently learned that four years ago when I redid my kitchen I should have informed the building department. I put in the electric (had an electricial install the 6/3 wire into the breaker box and he checked the circuits to the appliances. I also wired some lights). I had a plumber and also moved an interior support wall (using carpenters).
I wouldn’t have done this without the building department again, but what is my downside now that’s its done. I assume I’m covered by insurance even if I ran faulty wiring (which I didn’t). Any comments?
Replies
Not sure what the issue is....trying to clear your conscience or find out if you're covered on insurance? Having done a lot of "repair" work over the years...everything from collapsed decks to rotting houses from waterleaks, I can tell you that in my area, nearly every insurance company will attempt to deny claims if you should have gotten a permit and didn't. There also can be hassles at selling if you did unpermitted work (a big no-no in my area on the disclosure statement). In any event; don't ASSUME you're covered, call your insurance agent. If worse comes to worse, most jurisdictions I know of might fine you a couple hundred for "after" inspections....but that one's up to you.
The house we bought has an unpermitted guest room built in the back, none of the work is up to code, so it's actually a liabilty to us,& we can't add it's square footage to our house total. The city we live in makes it easy to get permits; so I get them for 95% of projects to keep things above board and to maintain a good working relationship with our local building inspector. I've never had to change things after an inspection, but my projects are mostly small scale.
Jennifer
Jencar,
Does your city/county charge you taxes on that guest room ?
I understand that in my county, if the county charges you taxes on something that has been built unpermitted... the moment they cash that check, and accept the money, they have allowed the structure. They can't make you tear it down. It is now a part of your taxable property. It shouldn't be a liability.
I haven't tested this in person, it comes from a county official. So treat it like you would any other anecdotal evidence.Don't bogart the Ghost
Quittin' Time
"Does your city/county charge you taxes on that guest room ?"
How would you know? You don't a separate line item for each room. And even if they did the room was there before, they just changed the size.
Besides in most cases taxing is only down on what information is available from outside the house. Basically a combination of sq footage and the relative sales in that area.
Even with the plans they know if that kitchen has stock laminate counters top, with base grade cabinets, remanite vinyl floor and a $200 stove and refigerator from the scratch and dent store. Or if they have $300/lf granite counters, custom cabinets from solid rosewood, with ebony trim, terazo floors, and $15,000 worth of high end appliances.
dont they tax you by the square footage ? I honestly dont know. Im guessing they do. At least its part of the equation. So if they do then yes they'll tax him on the addition
Ron
The orginal question was about redoing a kitchen and moving an interior wall.
No change in the footprint.
BTW, in the state that I live (MO) there are no state wide codes or licensing or inspections. The metropoliatan areas do have code and inspections set by the local authorities. I have in a small city (about 350 homes) in a metro area. And we do have codes and inspections. But the cities basic line is that they don't want to know about anything that you do inside. So unless it is a new construction or an additon you can do whatever you want.
Bill here in Calif they inspect ya to death and then in certain cities they dig ya up and doing again...
How would you know ?
Square footage. Are taxes charged for the full square footage or not. It's that simple. Why make a whole complex issue of it ?Don't bogart the Ghost
Quittin' Time
In my area taxes (for new construction) are based on sq. ft. and estimated cost per sq. ft. Ditch
Most HO's are completly ignorant of the permit/inspection routine, and I come across it all the time. Most of the time it is nothing major, or at least nothing deadly. But sometimes I'll pull an outlet from the wall and just thank God the house hasn't burned down already.
Most codes read that anything deeper than paint has to be inspected, which is nonsense, Most people can manage to replace a light fixture without killing themselves, just follow the instructions. But somehow after all this people do end up killing themselves or someone else by not doing it right the first time, or having it inspected by someone who knows what they are doing. (that is often not the inspector by the way)
So where do I stand? It's your house, you know what you did and if you have any doubts that you did it right pull it apart and check. There is nothing in your house that isn't covered in a manual somewhere. Justus Koshiol
Running Pug Construction
Luka,
Good point. I need to look up the square feet we're being taxed for, and compare it to our actual footage. How are the Lobstants?
Thanks, Jen"Insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results" "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" A. Einstein
heck with the permits, that is if you actually know what your doing, all they are is a reason for the city to raise your taxes
sad but true. Half of good livin' is staying out of bad situations,
no matter how loud you roar with a primal scream.
A lot depends on the attitude of your local building department and on the individual inspector you get. And things change over time. Here they had a rep for being extremely tough for a long time, but now they're in a period of reform. The chief of the department recently said at a public meeting that they were going easy on illegal garage conversions because the alternative would be to dump tens of thousands of people into the homeless shelters. Ask around among other homeowners in your area.
How would anybody know what was done and when it was done? Have you been there for more than ten years? If you do some new small modification in the same area with a permit, the wording on the new C of O here would be vague enough that the insurance company would believe that it covered everything.
-- J.S.
Are we to assume your agent has pics of your kitchen prior to the renovation? I know they sometimes do a portfolio on the exterior, some extremly high end stuff, and some known flaws they exempt themselves from, but otherwise how would they know about your kitchen? How does the city know about your kitchen?
Don
Say nothing...to noone....4 years and no problemo?...no problemo!Ditch
Say nothing...to noone....4 years and no problemo?...no problemo!
ya - and what ever you do, don't advertize it on the internet -
ya - and what ever you do, don't advertize it on the internet -
...and Jon Blakemore advertised where his toggle is for the truck cap alarm over at the Trailer Alarm postDitch
If you have the time and desire to travel the country (notice I didn't specify which one...) to find a truck with a radio shack alarm and toggle switch under the dash, you can take my tools. No problem.Jon Blakemore
Jon,
I wasn't poking fun at you.... (well maybe a little)...just some lumber yard ribbing.
I wonder how many Blakemores there are in the world? Found 7 in my home town of 5500.Ditch
That's more than I would have expected. Are you going to cruise their driveways looking for trucks with caps?
Jon Blakemore
I'm not a thief, but if I were.....what color is that Ford?Ditch
whiteJon Blakemore
I have a different take on building inspectors then most people, I like when they come in and point out anything wrong, I dont like them to find a lot wrong, but when they do its better to know about it then not later. People make mistakes all the time, when its crunch time on a job sometimes people hurry to much, its not just a tax issue its a saftey issue.
ya right. don’t tell any one. Let see how do you do that. I know just make sure you take all of your neighbors out to lunch the day Home depot backs up the truck and unloads 30 sheets of ply and 50 sheets of sheetrock and 150 2x by.
Then use nerff hammers and saw so you don’t make any construction noise while you are rebuilding the inside of your home.
You don’t think the insurance adjusters don’t talk to neighbors on all side of a home if the just fell a part or burnt down. How about the fire department if there is a fire. How about the person that is looking at buying the house you don’t think they are not going to ask the neighbors.
Hey Homer, did you read the post? This occured 4 years ago, I'll say it again.... .........4 YEARS AGO!! In the real world a lot of DIY projects, almost all in my area, are done without consulting anyone. New kitchens and baths, basement remodels, anything that doesn't require digging or a foundation.Ditch
After four years have passed I would think that you have gotten away with it as far as codes enforcement is concerned.
The normal course that I see around here is: Owner rewires or adds to wiring in some major, usually interpreted to mean more than just replacing a receptacle or other small repairs, way and fails to get a licensed contractor to do it and doesn't get it inspected. The inspection department finds out. He visits and insists that a permit be drawn, with a substantial penalty for the initial non-compliance, and that a licensed contractor sign off on the installation.
The games begin. Most contractors I know, the reputable ones won't put their name on a job that wasn't done by someone that they have confidence in on a technical level. Their, the contractor gives the HO a price for removing all the wiring done by the HO or local handyman and rewiring the effected area. The HO throw a fit at the cost and the insult to their abilities.
The HO rejects the offer, sometimes at the point of a gun, and begins to call around to find a license holder who will put his reputation on the line for a stranger and a good bit of cash. Given enough time, a contractor with a profound sense of humor, six months to live or a bottom feeder too hopeless or drunk to care can be found and a deal struck. A few contractors make their money primarily on signing services not actually doing the work. Most of these are scum.
Once the permit is signed by the licensed contractor he and his insurance company, if any, are underwriting the installation as if he has done it. Once signed and the work, any not completed, is finished the inspector returns and, assuming it passes, signs off on the job. How all this keys in with the property appraisal office and the HOs insurance remains a mystery that may vary widely according to the area and their procedures.
Four years after the fact and assuming your property taxes have not gone up, this would likely trigger a close look by the insurance company for the permit you don't have, I would think that, as long as you don't breath a word about it on the internet, you may have gotten away with it.
It depends on the rules in your local jurisdiction.
Many places, it's nothing.
Some have a late fee is all
Some might reqquire an iinspection/certification process.
Some are so strict that you can't sell it wiothout jumping through a hoop and off a cliff and into the fire.
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
It'll get you 10 to 20.
Good behavior, maybe you'll be out in 6.