I tried to post this earlier and it seems to have disappeared.
I’m going to be on a huge framing project, five or six days a week, for a year or so … haven’t worked like this in years. I began a few weeks back and am already experiencing trouble in my right arm/elbow from hammering. I’ve got a paslode framing nailer that I love … but it doesn’t get into every corner and I DO find myself hammering with my old hammer.
I never gave much thought to differences in hammers before this … but I feel I can’t afford to take time off for ‘recuperation’ and so I’d like to avoid any injuries from the outset. I ran a search here on ‘framer’s elbow’ and did’t find much … though I KNOW I’ve seen some discussion of it here in the past.
Anyway … PLEASE chime in if you know of a hammer that really TRULY absorbs shock quite well and might really make the difference between my struggling with difficulties throughout the year and my sailing through the project without the ‘trauma’ of tendonitis or bone/muscle damage.
Someone told me that the “California Framing Hammer” … somehow due to its shape .. saves the elbow/arm from taking the shock of the blow. Any truth to this?
Thanks!
Terry
Replies
I can't comment specifically on the hammer issue as I use the same 20oz Eastwing I have had for years.
But I can tell you that doing this stuff full time is a lesson in body management and living in a certain level of pain a fair amount of the time. This is tough work physically and not much will take that away. And the older you are the less resiliant your body will be. I find Fridays a real drag at 48.
Some of the things I do that help me. I work out 3 days a week. Just a light lifting program that takes about 30 minutes. I carry extra strength tylenol all them time. Drink plenty of fluids. Eat right. I try to vary my work where I can to work different body parts throughout the day to spread the load around. I try to be concious of whether or not there is a less taxing way to do something and use the less abusive to my body method. Hope this helps. DanT
Terry, I worked for two decades without a hint of any problems. I used a variety of hammers and weights during that time. Then, I bought a new craftsman hammer becuase I liked the claws. In less than a month I developed a severe case of elbowitis.
In desparation I switched to a 14oz Stilletto with a straight wood handle. Don't let the 14oz fool you. It frames like any other. I've never been happier.
Oh yeah, the elbowitis dissappeared forever.
blue
That's cool, blue, we have the same hammer.I "stole" mine from Bob. In other words, I kept borrowing it until he went out and bought himself a new one. lolHave you seen their nifty catspaw?
I'm using a CHICK HAMMER?!!!!
Oh, sorry for the sexist joke.
I don't know anything about their nail puller. What makes it so special?
blue
On the side of the Stilletto nail puller, (on the angled end), there is a small cylinder (sticking out perpendicular). The diameter is a tad larger the a 16, so when you place it over your nail and whack it, it exploses the nail for pulling.Another one of those "why didn't I think of that?" things.
Darcy, I'm still clueless about the stilletto nailpuller. I'm intrigued now and want to try one. I googled it and couldn't find a picture of what your telling me.
Help!
blue
bedevil,
here's a pick of what she's referring to ... the little 'tube' near the head on the bottom view is for 'depressing' the wood around the nail head before applying the grip-points. It IS a great idea!
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000T4VAG.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg
T
i'll throw in another vote for the stiletto cat's paw. i've been using mine for months now, and it shows virtually now wear, and weighs less than the little shark one i carry for finish work.another one to consider in the premium hammer world is douglas. the design is unique, and really, really nice. if i could find a titanium hammer with the douglas casting, i'd buy it in a second.
I wonder about the Stanley Anti-Vibe hammer.
I know it's a cheapy ... but since they've made such a big deal about it's design in terms of absorption of the strike-vibe ... wondering if there's as much to it as they claim. Anyone know?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00005QVQI/104-4456517-0605569?v=glance&n=228013&v=glance
T
I know, I have the 20 ounce and it's a great hammer. I already had the surgery 4 years ago and it wasn't pretty. I mean I use my guns for everything but I still like to bang a nail once and a while like the old days.http://www.amazon.comJoe Carola
After all of this discussion my real question now sorta boils down to "is the engineered anti-vibe thing better or worse than the natural anti-vibe characteristics of wood?". The first reviewer on the Amazon page that you provided makes the following statement:
Is there something to the anti-vibe magic? I think so. I don't think it's as good at dampening the vibration as a nice hickory handle, but it's better than most hammers with steel or fiberglass handles.
Sounds like his vote is for the wood!
Too bad there aren't some actual test results to look at. Somebody at some point musta done that.
T.
I don't know the answer but this hammer is pretty good for me. I used a 28 ounce estwing for 18 years before this.Here's a pretty ugly scar from that elbow surgery I had.Joe Carola
Framer,
I just had surgery on my elbow and radial nerve last month. How long was the recovery from this? It doesn't seem like I am making much progress.
Todd
I had it done about 5 years ago and the cast was on for almost 2 weeks. The cast was on almost a 90° angle and when it came off I couldn't even bend my elbow it just stayed on that angle slowly being able to straighten it out after about 2 weeks. For me it took about 4-6 weeks before actually being able to use it normally. I remember times right after the cast came off just bumping into something and my elbow bending and I felt like I was shot because it was so stiff. This is when all my friends figured it was a good time to try and beat me up but after my elbow heeled it was like a brand new arm and then I used it as a hammer to get them all back......;-)I actually had both elbows done because I was training jiu-jitsu at the time and from getting my arms locked and not tapping out because I'm to pigheaded my left elbow popped one night and never healed properly so that one was done also.The key thing to these elbow problems is don't wait to long before you treat it like I did because when I first started feeling pain I let it go for couple years before I did anything about it and I had cortisone shots in them and they didn't last. One shot only lasted about 6 months on my arm. You can't keep getting those shots either.I almost positive between framing all these years and the jui-jitsu is the main reason why my elbows were damaged because I'm right handed technically but I can use both and there was no reason why my left elbow should've been damaged.The doctor also told me that it wasn't just swinging the hammer it's picking up all the heavy lumber like lifting up a wall is like curling if you lift weights and all those years although never feeling heavy to me it's just put a lot of where and tear on the joints. Who really knows. Now I have two new arms and use a 10lb sledge for framing and ready to go for anything else.....;-)Joe Carola
Glad to hear it has worked out well. I guess I am just in a hurry to get back at it. The cast has been off for a week now and I still can't straighten it much. See the Doc again Dec. 15 and the goal is to be able to straighten out my arm. Still on 100 percent weight restriction. I will start some physical therapy after this appointment.
I agree about not waiting to long. I did! I am a mason and the repetitive motion killed me, not to mention the lifting as you siad. Can't wait to get back at it, not much for sitting in the house.
Thanks for the info.
Todd
Why did you need the surgery Joe? Did you have an accident, or did the 28oz weight do you in?
blue
I use a Stanley anti-vibe 16 for almost everything. I had a lot of arm pain until I retired the Estwing to its best possible use - breaking piles of frozen lumber - and no serious arm pain since. I use a wood handled Vaughn 13 for trim, and it's a treat to use.
I have no hesitation about buying a Stanley hammer, because it doesn't have to be square or level or accurate to a 32nd, so i don't expect to be disappointed that way.
I used to think the the hardest thing about using the estwing was just hanging on to it, so I built up a knot of tape at the bottom of the handle to make that easier. If you don't have to grip as hard, you won't get as tired. If you don't get as tired, you are less likely to get injured. My theory.
Anyway, I can't see myself spending big bucks on a hammer when I do daam near everything with air tools.
Ron
I used to think the the hardest thing about using the estwing was just hanging on to it, so I built up a knot of tape at the bottom of the handle to make that easier. If you don't have to grip as hard, you won't get as tired. If you don't get as tired, you are less likely to get injured. My theory.
because this is being discussed now I really paid attention to the source of my pain today as I worked and I definitely noticed that I hold on to that hammer with a death-grip. My bicep tightens completely when I hammer ... a habit I'll need to defuse in order not to have a sore arm. I may need to 'wrap' or otherwise somehow 'prep' my new Vaugn wood handled hammer in order not to feel that I need to grip the crap out of it.
Noticed today that it's a 19 oz ... I had stated here that it was 16. 19 is right in the middle of all of the suggestions here ... so .. good compromise. 19, straight claw, wood handle which is fairly straight .. though it's called a "California Framer" .. which I had thought was determined by a curved handle. Guess not.
T
Try one of these... they work fantastic and I usually get a good 6 or 8 months out of them before I get a tear that slowly enlarges.
They are a one piece rubber grip that comes stretched over a 'tube'. You put your hammer handle in the tube and then pull the tab which starts the unraveling of the tube. As the tube unravels, the stretched rubber collapses to your hammer handle. It's pretty slick and there's no way you're getting that thing off unless you cut it or wear it off.
Gives you a nice tacky grip so that you can relax and swing properly. When I'm swinging good, my pinky finger wrapped around to the base of my thumb is doing all the gripping while the other three fingers are just kinda along for the ride.
Never heard of this ... sounds slick!
Any idea what it's called or where I might come by one?
One little clue at least?
:)
I just added the link that I forgot to add the first time.... you can order them right from that website for about $13. I've been using them for three or four years now.
I only use wood handled hammers (Vaughn Ti-Tech is my honey) and they can get pretty darn slippery with dry scaly hands in the winter and sweaty hands in the summer.
DOH!
Hate it when I forget to attach a link.... here it is... for the handle wraps...
http://store.stilettotools.com/Detail.bok?no=3
I never knew such a thing existed. I've been using atheletic tape for a couple years now, but it catches a ton of dirt.
http://www.ithacasports.com/athletictape1.html
View Image
Stacy's mom has got it going on.
I love the toys baby.
Keep your personal life out of this...
Stacy's mom has got it going on.
Oh and thanks for the link to the athletic tape. That'll sure come in handy. What would we do without you?
I'd probably lose a lot more blood. It seems to be the only way I can get Band-Aids to stay put. I developed my dependency during my years playing baseball. It's like the athletes duct tape.
Stacy's mom has got it going on.
Hey dp thanks for the link! (If you look at our time-stamps you'll see that I was asking while you were giving).
Looks like you can get it at Amazon too .. with free shipping and handling if you combine it into an order of over $25
http://www.amazon.com
thanks again,
T
Try a little beeswax rubbed into the wood handle. It works year round in hot and cold. It makes the handle a little tacky so it won't slip. Surfboard wax works too for a little more.Mike Callahan, Lake Tahoe, Ca.
Thanks Mike .. sounds good
T
I used to use Mr. Zogs sex wax (surfboard wax) on my hammer handles too. That was until I opened one of the boxes on my service body on a hot summer day and found it had melted all over my finish guns. Not a happy day.
Dear Blue,I promise to take a picture for you Monday.I also need to post the picture of the lame-ness of the new Hitachi. As far as I am concerned, Hitachi should pull it off of the market until they fix the fence.Look in to it.luv ya girly-man,
dar...lol!
"I promise to take a picture for you Monday."
this is it, isn't it? http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000T4VAG.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg
T.
Yep, that it, the little pricey thing...lol, thanks.
So ... just got a Vaughn 16 oz Cal-Framer ... hickory handle .. waffle face. I think it's gonna be fun. It just naturally 'feels' better than my old graphite Stanley.
Picked up my first load of tji's tonight also. 16 fifteen footers... to put the 'lid' on my first floor. Very excited about that ... will provide a little dry area -- 15 X 20 -- that'll be nice as hell to have over the next several months of work! Gonna be a FLAT roof with epdm cover ... won't install the epdm till Spring when it warms sum.
:]
T
Hey thanks Darcy but I think Newbuilder already posted a pic. I like that concept and I'm now in the market for one, or two. If I don't buy Frank one, he'll end up stealing mine.
I don't use Hitachi saws. The only one I've tried was their sidewinder which was built tough enough for my wife and grandkids to use. It's junk.
I will be getting serious about buying a chopsaw or power mitre box though. I think I'll need one by the middle of December. I did some reading at Rigid.com to see how their saw measured up with your recomendations. There were a lot of guys pushing the Makita. Rigid had a few bad comments, enough to scare me even though I liked them for some reason or another. I can't remember exactly why, but I have looked and compared some of these in a store somewhere.
blue
Hey blue,Yeah, I saw that nb had posted, so sorry for not responding.Mitersaws. Bosch is far and away our best seller (our clientele is mostly made up of contractors, cabinet makers, and woodworkers, NOT homeownwers) due to the user friendly factors: controls up front, readable bevel, and micro adjust, etc.We sell the Bosch 4:1 to any other brand, but Makita comes in 2nd, Dewalt 3rd, and the others follow...Don't know squat about the Rigid, but hate anything Home Depot. We get so many people in our store who bought from them, yet can't get any service after the sale, poor schmucks lol. I do realize tho, HD's presence has forced out many real tool stores so maybe in some areas, that's all that's available, too bad. I hope this is not the case in your area.Let me know if you need any info and I'll try to help,
darcy
Mitersaws. Bosch is far and away our best seller (our clientele is mostly made up of contractors, cabinet makers, and woodworkers, NOT homeownwers) due to the user friendly factors: controls up front, readable bevel, and micro adjust, etc.
We sell the Bosch 4:1 to any other brand....
============================================
Last May there was a little flurry of interest here on this board about a Bosch Miter saw on sale at Amazon. This is the saw:
http://www.amazon.com
They had it on sale for $185 plus free shipping. I got it and am using it daily now. My first and only ... really like it.
I know it's too lightweight and simple for many here ... but perfect for me.
T.
We have that saw for $289 right now. Higher, but our cost is probably higher on it too being a smaller outfit.We beat Tool Crib/Amazon in other areas quite often though.It's a solid saw.
curious what craftsman hammer you had such a bad experience with
wood, metal, fiberglass?
Shoeman, I believe it was a metal hammer from Craftsman. I'm thinking it was 22oz. I'm vague because I never really developed a relationship with it. My memory is foggy but I don't think I used it more than one month before I gave it away.
blue
I was guessing it was probably the all steel (Eastwing style).
I had one of those for about a year. Have been using the fiberglass handled framer for about the last 7 years and really like it - gotta admit though, I don't do much pounding anymore.
I've had that same problem for 20 years or more... Definitely aggravated by too much hammering. Belive me I know how frustrating this pain can be. It comes and goes...
Here is my advice:
1) get rid of ANY metal shaft hammers that you have. Use only wood handles or some fiberglass are OK. Anti-vibe steel? - I don't buy it... I used to love my Estwing but then I "grew out of it". Currently I use a wood axe handled Vaughn but really only do intermittent punchout - even still I rarely hesitate to drag out out the hoses and nailguns. Wish I had a cordless framer. My elbow hasn't bothered me in about a year...
2) you can get an elbow brace at the drug store. It's an elastic band about 3" wide and adjusts to fit tightly around your forearm just below the elbow. By supporting this muscle, you support the elbow joint. It helps but is not a cure-all.
BTW - back to the hammer thing, I've wondered if those Titanium hammers are dependent on increased velocity of swing, and therefore a greater impact and more of a jarring action to the forearm and elbow... I want the hammer to do the work, not me.... Another thought - I wonder why they don't make a "dead blow" style framing hammer?
Edited 11/11/2005 8:01 am ET by Matt
I've wondered if those Titanium hammers are dependent on increased velocity of swing, and therefore a greater impact and more of a jarring action to the forearm and elbow...
Instead of wondering, try one out. Then, you probably won't have to be offering advice about braces and such.
Nowadays, when I borrow anyones hammer for even a split second, I immediately feel the strain being imposed on my frail arms.
blue
Most of the advice given so far is good. When I started out framing at age 41, I immediately wanted to buy a "big" hammer like my boss had. He told me not to until I had worked a while because too heavy a hammer would give me elbow problems. So I stayed with my little 16 oz. Stanley. I wrapped the handle with foam padded tape that's made for racketball rackets and that seems to help too--also gives a better grip.
I think besides vibration, and too heavy a hammer, a death grip on a slippery handle also leads to elbow pain. I like the shape of my Vaughn, (wood "axe handle" type handle) but use it rarely because it is 20 oz. I like hammers that widen out at the end to keep it from slipping out of my hand, but the only two I've seen are a clunky Stanley "I-beam" with steel and fiberglass handle and a "Fat-Max Antivibe". The Fat-Max is quite comfortable (has a rubber covering that flares at the bottom), but it is heavy too (19 oz., if I remember right.).
Go with a titanium hammer. I use the Stiletto Ti-bone hammer and love it. Dieselpig uses the Vaughn Ti-Tech and loves it.
I use a Stiletto Ti-Bone, noticeably easier on wrist & elbow tendonitis, but not a cure-all.
I had a bad case of framers elbow. I used an Estwing for years and didn't use nail guns until the late seventies, heavy production framing, all hand driven. Home Depot sells Ridgid hammers. They are a strange looking hammer but very comfortable to use. These hammers absorb more shock than any others I've tried. The big down side to these and some others is a hole in the cheek. When you get into tight spots, you often have to use the cheek to start and drive a nail. This can't be done with any of the hammers that have open sides. A good way to check a hammers absorption is to hit a solid metal object. The best hammers don't bounce off. It's the bounce that transfers the energy to your arm. Be sensible when nailing, you don't have to drive the spikes with one stroke.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Ok, so the hammer issue is being settled - what to do with your pain. I use glucosamine sulphate and MSM. By 'mistake' I took something like 8 times the dosage for the first 2 weeks, then 4x for 2 more weeks. That seemed to rid me of it. Go to your health-food or vitamin store for better advice.
All the best...
To those who know - this may be obvious. To those who don't - I hope I've helped.
Piko,
Your point about glucosamine interests me. I've been taking the G. condoitrin (upon a doctor recommendation) for a couple years now, not sure if it's helping my joints. didn't get worst for sure. Is the G. sulphate better from your experience?
What's MSM?
I like your liberal use of the "dosage", I assume it is intentional. Are you taking the "normal" dose now?
I prefer your advice over the one from teh store, more reality based.
TIA.
I cannot recall G chondroitin. G sulphate is good. MSM is 10 times better. MSM (methyl-sulfonyl-methane) strengthens and helps coat the ball-and-sockets of our joints and the cartilege there. Common medical practise usually prescribes Aspirin for, say, arthritis - and aspirin actually breaks down the cartilege over time. MSM will build up. Good, you've not got arthritis, but your joints will need all the help they can get.
In my case I was often woken up with pain in my arm and wrist. I embarked on the extreme 8x or 10x usage those 1st 2 weeks and the 4x usage for 2 more at the suggestion of a health-care professional. Now, I won't say that you ought to...just that it got rid of the pain within 3 weeks, and, touch wood, it's stayed away. Nor did it seem to do irrepairable harm. I take a combination GS and MSM from 'Natural Factors' - 2x 2 tablets per day (MSM only stays in the body 12 hours), and I have not had a recurrence in 4 or 5 years. Do use a professional, as I believe (and practise) that one should not take this for longer than 6 weeks w/out a month's hiatus, and it would be better for you to find out on your own.
All the best...
To those who know - this may be obvious. To those who don't - I hope I've helped.
Edited 11/11/2005 11:56 pm by piko
Thanks piko and wrudiger.
Went back and checked the label on my Glucosamine bottle, you're correct, it's a combo G. HCL and Condoitrin. Also stopped by the drugstore and picked up some MSM, will be doing some research and study and consultation on this.
Piko also said >> Good, you've not got arthritis
Sorry to say, but I do. Also wake up sometimes and hands don't feel too good. Don't do much intense work like framing, simply a matter of getting up the the years. The first 2 doctors that I saw about this weren't much help. The 3rd one recommended the G./condoitrin combo.
BTW, my framing tools are a 24 oz Plumb with waffle face, glass shaft w rubber grip, a PC FR350 gun and a Bostitch hand nailer for tight spots.
Thanks again guys for the great info.
Chondroitin is not glucosamine, it's a separate supplement that is supposed to help with joints. I haven't seen any conclusive tests about it though.
There are two kinds of glucosamine - Sulfate and HCl. Everything I've seen indicates that they both work just as well, except the G. HCl is cheaper to make (and buy!). The G. Sulfate was used in the first conclusive tests so it gets the best press.
My elbow was killing me and my sis gave me some MSM creme (methylsulfonylmethane) and it worked. It had been hurting for weeks after I installed a bathroom vent fan in an awkward position. It has been recommended that glucosamine and chrondrotin bet used in conjunction with MSM. Costco is the cheapest place to get glucosamine/chondrotin. My german shepherd is also on the pills as prescribed by the Vet.
Took a picture of my custom tape today, because I'm a loser...
Stacy's mom has got it going on.
Thanks a lot for sharing your experience.
I've been buying my G/Condtrn from walgreens for a couple years now, every once in a while they have a 2 for 1 sale on various vitamins and supplements. When tehy do I buy a few months supply. Makes you wonder how they can do this so often and maintain their margeins, but that's a different thread.
have never been to a costco, NEVER, but have been wanting to for a while now as an alternative to BJ's (DW's favorite discount store). Now I have one more reason.
Also funny that your K9 family member benefits from teh same stuff.
Eat Pineapple.
Ah Ha! I see why I couldn't find my earlier submission of this question ... though I placed BOTH submissions into "General Discussion", the Powers that Be saw to it that they ended up in "Tools for Home Building"! Now I get it. So ... sorry for the double-post.
Well THANKS SO MUCH for all of the great feedback. I'm in an unusual situation relative to some of you others here in that though I DID lead a VERY active life in daily landscaping I was NOT swinging a hammer every day. Now that I've cut back the gardening to practically nothing I'm building a project that I've dreamed about for YEARS -- a forty foot tower -- and I'm doing every aspect of it on my own ... I"m also past the mid-century mark ... so here come the aches and pains. I'm one of those guys who's still sort of 'boyish' and agile in later middle age ... been active and done yoga for most of my life ... But these evenings lately that follow 5 or 6 straight days of hauling my own lumber and drywall around and cutting and pounding this an that together -- and now in the blustery cold and rain -- I'm experiencing a degree of weariness ... radical fatigue .. that I don't know that I recall EVER experiencing before.
I'm using a common old stanley hammer, btw, with a 'graphite' handle ... about a 16 ouncer. Looking at some of the suggested hammers I just can't believe the price-tags! That Stilleto Ti-bone is over $220!!! The Vaughn titanium is $85 ... maybe I could talk myself into that. I've got to do something before the situation gets worse. Yesterday I attempted to only pound with my left arm/hand; if I keep doing that ... someone in the future, looking at the framing of the job as they disassemble the tower for some reason, will only be able to conclude that a three year old built it ... so MANY hammer 'misses' in a big circle around every nail!
I really appreciate that people here gave a wider variety of tips and ideas. So .. not only have I got some hammers to look at, but I may look into that elbow brace for a little support for right now at least .. and maybe I should consider actually making use of that Gold's Gym membership that automatically deducts from my bank account each month for no visible reason. And, of course .. the pineapple.
Thanks again, very much appreciated --
Terry... outside daily in the drizzly NW -
You forgot the pineapple.
You forgot the pineapple.
no. no i didn't. you may've mis-read.
Terry, I paid about 70 bucks for mine about 5 years ago. Money well spent. I would never go back.
blue
I see the stiletto titanium handle at Amazon for exactly that ... 70 bucks:
http://www.amazon.com
Then there's the wooden handled 'California-Framer' that some have recommended:
http://www.amazon.com for 30 or so.
I'll have to go to HD or Sears and play around with some I guess. I hate those 'mill-faced' smashers. Who wants to leave a waffle imprint any time they're working at an angle leaning down over a double top-plate and can't get a good shot!
I'm surprised to hear so many swear by a good old fashioned wooden handle for shock absorbency! Who woulda thunk it! But on the other hand .. they're charging over TEN TIMES AS MUCH for the titanium "tibone" ... so they must think they're on to something!
T.
I'm guessing neith HD or Sears will carry the Silletto.Go to a real tool store.<g>
Newbuilder, I used a metal hammer handle for the first two decades with no problems ever. When the elbowitis hit, I swictced to wood. I've broke three handles in three years but I know how to be patient and baby them. I don't use them as rough as I used to use my steel hammers.
I don't like the smooth faced hammers for roughing at all. In fact, my stilleto started out as a waffle and now it's pretty much smooth. There were a few suggestions given to me recently to renew the waffle, but I haven't got around to it yet. The waffle keeps the head from sliding off when whacking nails at weird angles, which I do a lot of.
Before I use a new hammer, I take a file and scrape off the points of the waffle. I then beat it flat too.
I don't do much exterior trim work with smooth pine so my modified waffle head works fine. I probably would keep a smooth face handy if I did much smooth pine trim work.
blue
The ti hammer is something that once you try you'll never go back. I also use a anti-vibration glove when I'm shooting nails all day,it really helps cut down on the pain in my wrist.
what's an "anti-vibration glove" ? ? ?
found 'em
http://www.painreliever.com/index.php?c_id=2493&brand_id=30
ALSO available at Amazon for less:
http://www.amazon.com/
The vaughn I have was around $30. No fancy metal though...
I just got my Stiletto. I paid $219 at amazon.com and couldn't believe I would ever pay that for a hammer. My elbow loves me now and I've almost got the feeling back in my fingers. Think I waited too long?
You got the Stiletto with the new orangish color grip? The model before that Amazon had for 189 and I got mine through my lumberyard for 165ish. I can't figure out pricing on those things.
I'll be at the JLC LIVE in Porland in two weeks and at least one of the guys who has that hammer (older version 2 years old and newer) is taking his hammer to the Stiletto booth because the bottom of his grip is really squishy and pulled slightly away from the handle. He is doing to see if they do something about it.
I love that hammer though. Money well spent.
Yeah, it was pretty confusing. I couldn't make heads or tails out of the model descriptions from the stiletto site either. They don't sell them here in Norway, so I had one sent to my Dad who brought it here with him. We use 4 and 5" nails here and they get a bit tiring after the third or fourth hour of framing. I'm hoping this thing works out as well as planned. Seems like it tho.
Most framers who use pneumatic fasteners carry a large heavy hammer for moving things, not for driving nails. They use it for minor occasional “sledge†work to draw things over or up tight. The number of nails actually driven daily does not cause them arm pain. If you are using the occasional use 28 oz. framing sledge to drive little nails for sheathings on a regular basis then the hammer is not a match to the task.
I agree with Blue Eyed Devil (and others) about the lighter hammer. Get a smaller or lighter hammer. I like the 19 to 21 oz smooth face California style wooden handled Harts for a general purpose pneumatics’ complimentary tool. I have never had arm pain from hammer use.
1500 milligrams of Naproxin daily. Learned about this wonder drug after having back surgury at 35. Long as I stay on it I can function. Miss a dose or two and I start feeling like there's sandpaper in my joints.
I wear the elbow band mentioned earlier for several months at a time, then don't need it for a year or so. Shortens the muscle allowing the tendon to heal at the point where it meets the elbow.
Cortisone shots. I've had two in my right shoulder and two in my right elbow. Good for a couple years at a time.
I also keep a supply of Vicodin in the cabinet for those nights when it feels like there's a bowling ball under my matress.
Hey, if it was easy anyone could do it. You got to want it.
With all due respect, Jim, this is the kind of situation I would like to AVOID!
So far I've got a psycho-physical vehicle that works fairly glitch-free ... it'd be GREAT if I could get through this project with that little aspect of my reality remaining relatively unaltered!
thanks -
terry
Mr JaLAPENO, a 19 oz hammer feels like a sledge hammer to me now. I only carry one nail, if that with me because I use the gun for everything but I still don't like to swing those "heavy" ones anymore!
blue
Very good advice on wood handles and titanium heads. Especially wood handles. But I noticed that something wasn't mentioned. Proper hammer technique.
When hammering, your forearm and elbow should barely have to move. With relatively relaxed muscles, hold your arm at just a little over a ninety degree angle. Swing mainly with your shoulder. Use long swings when possible. And don't develop the bad habit of jerking your wrist like some guys do.
Edited 11/18/2005 6:37 pm ET by JourneymanCarpenterT
When hammering, your forearm and elbow should barely have to move. With relatively relaxed muscles, hold your arm at just a little over a ninety degree angle. Swing mainly with your shoulder. Use long swings when possible. And don't develop the bad habit of jerking your wrist like some guys do.
EXcellent advice. Even with the BEST hammer ... bad technique will kill ya. Thanks for bringing it up!
Go to a real tool store.
Ha! You're absolutely right! ... I LIVE at HD these days. Bad 'habit'.
Thanks!
Terry
In addition to all the good tool advice, here are a couple more points - from someone who's trashed their 50+ body several times with over-enthusiastic tool use...
1. Acupuncture!! With what you are doing now a regular maintenance treatment will be invaluable. It's the only thing that fixed nasty tendonitis in both elbows & one shoulder.
2. A couple of years ago there was a very good article in FHB by a framer about his stretching and exercise program. Lots of good ideas specifically for this kind of work.
While I love my Stiletto hammer, I was disappointed with my Stiletto cats paw. Although very lightweight, it dos'nt grip nails like my Sharkgrip 2028. In my opinion, the paw is opened to wide.
Notice the paw on the Stiletto compared to the Sharkgrip:
http://www.amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com
Pulling nails with the Stiletto is not as easy, but I suppose on the days I run around framing, the lightweight could possibly make up for it.
I thought I'd add a few points on hammers.
Titanium hammers are unique, but for most other hammers I'd recommend a 20oz. This is a perfect all around hammer. I think it's also just right for occasional frame nailing. Just enough weight to drive a nail easily, light enough that it won't weigh you down. If your going to be constantly handnailing while framing, I'd go with a 22 to 24 oz. Some guys like the 28 oz because it'll allow you to pound a 16d nail with one blow. I think the 5 oz less weight I have to carry and handle, more than makes up for the one extra swing.
The longer your hammer handle, the more it will increase the power of you swing. A hammer handle too long however, will be a nuisance, and will make it difficult to nail over head. If a hammer has a 20oz head, a 14" handle will usually suffice. Framing hammer handles usually need to be longer. A curved handle decreases the amount of pressure you have to squeeze with, to keep the hammer from slipping out of your hands. As you already know, in my opinion, a wooden handle is best. I never use a metal handled hammer. If I need something stronger than wood, I use a handle made of fiberglass.
A smooth bell face will allow you to do anything. If you're just framing, and only framing, a mill face will help keep your hammer from slipping off the nails.
Finally, straight claws are always best. I'm sure there are plenty who will disagree, but it's true. A straight claw allows you to pull nails, and pry. If you sharpen the claws, they can keep you from falling of a roof. They also permit you to chop, for the occasional but sometimes necessary, wood butcher technique.
And what of curved claw's (nail hammer) acclaim to nail pulling ease? You usually have to start pulling a nail with a cat's paw anyway. After this initial phase, the nail hammer's advantage is gone. Any basic carpentry book will tell you to finish pulling over a block of wood. Why? The curved claw dose'nt provide enough leverage anymore. This is much less of a problem with a rip (straight claw) hammer.
Here's my recommendation of hammers in descending order. I know what your thinking, "The Ace hammer?" This wood handled hammer is surprisingly strong. It also comes with a lifetime warranty.
http://store.stilettotools.com
http://images.google.com
Ace 021 20oz Smooth Face Rip Claw Hammer (No picture available, only sold in stores. They do exist!)
Edited 11/13/2005 1:11 am ET by JourneymanCarpenterT
Edited 11/18/2005 6:36 pm ET by JourneymanCarpenterT
Dayam Journeyman! Why didn't you come up with this earlier?! What a GREAT little riff on hammers! maybe I gotta take mine back! Although ... it DOES look a LOT like that stiletto ... I DID get the straight claws and the longer handle .. 16 inch instead of 14. But I hesitated on the waffle ... then went with it only because I'd never owned one before.
I've got that Shark 2028 by the way .. and I agree with you completely ... it is a WONDERFUL little tool. I absolutely believe that a few ounces in weight around the belt is NOT an issue when it comes to the usefullness of a tool. I'll go with the shark anyday.
Thanks for your meditation on hammers!
Terry
I grind the top third off the milled face before I hit the first nail. Instantly adds years of wear to the face. You'll still get the grip on the nail head, but with the added advantage of LESS damage to your skin when you glance off your thumb.Troy Sprout
Square, Level & Plumb Renovations
My apologies for my previous post. As I was writing it up, I got sidetracked looking for a picture of the hammer from Ace Hardware. After I posted it, I was on my way to bed. I guess in the meantime, you informed us of your new purchase. By the way, I think was a good choice.
You simply can't beat a hickory handle. And if you don't want to pay a lot for a hammer, Vaughan is definitely the way to go. There second only to Stiletto, and at a fraction of the cost. I recommended a 20 oz in combination with a nail gun. 19 onces will do just fine. Only if I was exclusively handnailing, would I then use a 23 oz hammer. While my Vaughan 999 has a 14" handle, your 16" should provide you with more leverage. This in turn should decrease the strain on your elbow (as long as your not nailing overhead).
I do however agree with Danno in rocking the hammer from side to side when pulling nails (also easier with a straight claw). This will definitely make it easier on you. Not to mention it's an excellent way to preserve wood handles.
Since your using it for framing, the mill face should come in handy. Even if it had been a 16 oz, I think every carpenter should own either a 13 or 16 oz for finish work. A 16 oz can also be used to drive an occasional 16d nail (although it would inevitably be harder on your elbow). Of course, I could't agree more with your straight claw.
I'm not much for sticking around in a discussion. I just post and run. Best wishes on your project. Excellent pick!
-T
Edited 11/18/2005 6:35 pm ET by JourneymanCarpenterT
I know it sounds crazy since I've only had it now for a few days ... but I swear my arm feels better already!
That wood handle, I think, just really does the trick!
T.
You make good points. There are two things you made me think of: a long handled hammer will tend to hurt your elbow more because you have to put more pressure on it to hold even the same weight on its longer "lever arm". Secondly, for pulling nails, I often turn the claw and rock it in a direction perpendicular to the axis of the claw. This way the claw grips the nail up close to the wood and again, the fulcrum of the lever is closer, so your force is larger with the same amount of exertion. Hope this makes sense!
I have found a curved handle helps me. Something about the way I am built or my technique.
Hammers for your elbow...
Have the Stilletos in both straight and curved handles. Take the curved version.
Went from 14 oz. to the Dalluge Sweet 16 Ti hammer. Think 16 oz. is where to be in Ti hammers. Extra 2 oz. does a bit more. Liked it a lot.
When that got stolen, bought a Vaughn 16oz Ti Tech, curved handle. Has a steel nose. Have to google on that and do mail order - unless you have a really good store. Hard to find. Seems to work just fine.
Far less flareups of tendonitis with ti hammers.
Now, for a titanium nail gun.
The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
I like these hammer discussions. I use a Vaughn 21 OZ steel California Framer for framing. It cost about 30 bucks. The handle has not come loose yet. The blue paint has worn off long ago. I never had any other wood hammer besides a Vaughn where the handle didn't come loose. For some reason Vaughn has the wood to head connection down. My Harts, Dalluges, Stillettos .... all came loose after a while.
Wood is good. Any other material for a handle will shatter your arm and have you running for the pain meds. I learned this the hard way.
I build homes where I park myself for years. The framing comes and goes and I always have to get used to it all over again. I am on siding now and am using a little Stillitto 10 OZ. It is backup for the coil nailer.
I am surprised that no one mentioned using a palm nailer. For tight spots where the framing nailer won't work and you might want to grab a hammer I will use the palm nailer instead. I can swing a hammer but after a while I would rather not. I am old now and I like using a palm nailer a lot more. I wear gloves all the time now too.
>>> I am surprised that no one mentioned using a palm nailer. For tight spots where the framing nailer
I did but not very clearly in post 48, called it a hand nailer "...and a Bostitch hand nailer for tight spots."
Also find myself using it a lot for driving bigger spikes as well, a breeze driving a 20d in old, super dry timbers on my 100+ year old remodel.
I too love hammers, they and the knife are humanity's oldest tools (the club and stones & various cutting & skinning implements used by pre-historic folks).
The hammers are all tools of destruction if your joints and tendons aren't in shape. I go to a chiropractor who has treated literally hundreds of Olympic level athletes. As for as your elbow goes, his recommendations ...
Front and back wrist curls with moderate weights. Bicep curls and tricep extensions with moderate weights. Ice at the end of the day, same as you would do if you had gotten an atletic injury.
Bruce
Between the mountains and the desert ...