So Last night, I put the ridge beam up just at the end of the day. I’m pretty green when it comes to framing so it took me longer than I had planned to calculate the rafters and as a result I diddnt put any rafters up that night to stabalize it. My housmate was helping me out, and as we went home I said: “you think that ridge beam will be okay?” and he said: “yeeeeah.. Unles we get 40mph winds.”
So i get there the next morning and sure enough it was windy as heck! The radio said “40mph winds last night..” Ridge beam was fine but it shredded some tar paper.
And wow was it challenging to use a tape measurer with heavy winds today!
Any of you folks live in areas where wind is a constant challenge? how do you deal with it? Lets hear some techniques!! I could sure use some help in that area.. Today had to be my most inneficcient day ever!!
Replies
Just talking to my uncle (family christmas party) who is a project manager or something for a big contractor in Boston. Strangely enough I told him about one of the injury stories that was on here last week.
So he tells me a guy was working for him on the 12th floor of a high rise, picks up a sheet of plywood, and the wind launches him and the plywood off the building like parasailing. Everyone thought the guy was a gonner and the guy, like one on here, lived landing in a pile of sand... then he said the weird thing is another worker, because he couldnt see where he was going, fell a few feet into a hole with a sheet and dies.
Strange.
I helped raise a sheathed gable end into severe wind in March, and the only difference was sheer numbers, there must have been at least 15-20 guys, collected from 4 jobsites. Oh and one suggestion, if its sheathed dont stand in a window ROs, lol the guy next to me turned blue, but we were on the side of a mountain.
heh, The most extreme wether I've worked in was a snowstorm.. You get to a certain point and it's counter-productive-->
measure once
scribble several lines
spend some time figuring out wich scribble
cut the wrong line
get mad
Zendo...your giving Skye some bad advice.
Skye...if you're lifting a heavy wall up, and there are 15/20 guys there....the first place you want to be is in ANY rought opening...l...except don't try to get the only one if I'm helping....because I'll already be there.
If that wall collapses, it will fall around you...not one you. Turning blue is a small price to pay for having an escape route.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
> If that wall collapses, it will fall around you...
Reminds me of a clip from a Buster Keaton silent movie. The wind blows the whole side off of a two story gable end balloon framed house. Buster is standing with his back to the building. It comes down and precisely misses him because he's right where the open window is.
-- J.S.
sorry blue I guess you are right, now that I think about it I had the blue guy on my left and the edge of the deck on my right. I just figured Id jump off, or push the blue guy out of the way if the wall gained on us. It was pretty scary, they partially braced it (Im not sure if that has a name, like a kick stand) a few times going up.
Zendo....good idea about being near the end too! ALWAYS plan your escape....ALWAYS!
Those braces will either snap like toothpicks or be driven through the floor. I pity you guys raising walls without equipment....especially in the wind.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Yeah,
I remember that movie. He did that stunt himself in one take. Just measured where the window opening was gonna be and stood there! Man had guts...........
Makes me think of a story.
Crane driver takes trusses out to a jobsite on a windy day. The last thing they go to set is a ~38' sheathed gable.
Crane driver tells framer it's too windy and he thinks it's to dangerous to set it. Framer insists, so the crane guy picks it up.
They had 2 tag line on it to try to control it. But the wind gets the better of them and they let go. Gable swings WAY out away from the crane, then swings back against the boom. Crane driver wisely decides it's time to check out the underside of the trailer to see how it looks.
Gable flops against the boom and breaks. The gable pieces take off like kites, and one slams into a pickup truck parked in the street.
Framer blames driver, driver blames framer. Don't recall how it all turned out.
I live on the island of Nantucket, where from October to April the wind averages 25mph or so, often 40, and gusts to 60 pretty regularly. Last fall I almost got launched off a roof holding a piece of plywood. It's amazing how much power the wind has when multiplied by the area of a sheet of plywood.
One thing we do when installing tar paper is that along all the seams we run a piece of builder's string, stapled every few inches. Keeps the edges from lifting up, which keeps the paper from blowing off. Usually. Sometimes we'll strap the paper (1x3 spruce) if we don't plan to get to the siding for a while.
We go overboard on all flashings. Horizontal rain is normal here, so we make sure the whole house is watertight in every direction before the siding or trim goes on. Lots of "bitch" tape and 8" copper flashing. The constant wind carries a lot of salt, so corrosion is an issue too.
All corners, windows, doors, and roof/wall intersections get felt or bitch (ice and water shield) splines. All exterior lights are set on light blocks, which are set on splines so any water that makes its way in will find its way out.
What kind of term is spline?
I think its originally a boat term, but they use it in 3D animation for 'framing' of primitive objects. Unless of course they are working with NURBS (Non Uniform Rational B Splines) then the UV coordinate 'framing' is called Isoparms. lol
Oh right thats the guy on Nantucket. Its also a medical term, like your 'abdominal spline' is the crease that goes from your hip to your groin between your abdomen and your leg.
Spline is the word, maybe it's a local term or practice, for a strip of some sort of membrane that goes underneath a joint in the facing material. Behind the joint where siding (here it's all cedar shingles, occasionally cedar clapboards) meets the window or door casing, for example, we run a 9" or 12" strip of 30#felt or ice and water shield. When the wind drives the rain into this joint, the rain just runs down the spline and back out to daylight.
As for derivation, probably like "splint", something that joins.
i thought it (spline) was a standard term... when i use hardie lap siding or any lap siding i always put a "spline" behind each joint...just cause it seems the right thing to do... thought it was SCP standard commerical practice
pony
mike,
do you live on island ? i try to get up every few years. always been a favorite spot.
carpenter in transition
Tim, I'm semi-nomadic, but I've been living on the island for a bit over a year now. It is an interesting place. A few years ago I worked here for a year or so as well. Seems like that's all I can take at a time, as next month I'm moving up to Portland, Maine. As beautiful a place as it is, it can be hard living 30 miles out in the ocean.
Do you have any favorite places when you come up? Maybe we should start a thread on favorite places instead of hijacking this one.
mike... we've always called them "splines " too...
they used to be a double fold of 15# felt.. but most of the time now we use Grace..
hey.. is your window /door salesman from Horner named Jim St. Laurent ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike, glad to know I'm not crazy. At least as far as splines go. I've seen the doubled-over felt on remodels--the theory was recently explained to me that the wall felt goes in between the spline layers, so wind-driven water gets caught in the crease and runs down. I think I like the ease of the peel-and-stick better!
We order our windows and doors from one of the two island lumberyards, usually Marine Home Center, sort of the island Home Depot, so I don't know the Horner guy. Horner has installed the stairs on some of our projects, though--man they do a good job!
have you ever seen Horner's "Nantucket " window?
they used to use a Hurd sash and make up the jambs and casing from clear cedar
after they dropped Hurd in favor of Kolbe & Kolbe they use the Kolbe sash
anyways, Jim St. Laurent is great guy, very knowledgeable salesman, i think he spends at least one day a week on Nantucket....Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I haven't seen that particular window. Some local guys make their own windows out of all clear cedar or mahogany. I've installed a lot of Boston Sash with pine jambs but clear 5/4 cedar casings and a nice fat cedar sill.
What kind of term is spline?
googled define:spline and got this:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3Aspline
Almost too much information.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
hey, capn.... none of those seemed to fill the bill as we know it..
so i'm assuming "spline" must be a New England building termMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks, I know what a spline is. Typcially I think of it as woodworkiing term for joining pieces of wood. ie run a dado in the edge of two boards and place a hardwood SPLINE in the grooves. I just could not figure out the application here. Here it is a piece of "something" slapped OVER an opening or crack. Very different in my mind.
What kind of ridge beam was it?
2x8, two 14' boards joined in the middle-->
measure once
scribble several lines
spend some time figuring out wich scribble
cut the wrong line
get mad
I thought it was some big structural beam. If it's just a 2x8 ridge why do you set the ridge first? Why not cut the rafters first and set four of them up two at one end and two at the other end and then slide the ridge up in between. This way the rafters hold the ridge up windy or not windy.Joe Carola
what keeps the rafters from blowing over in the wind before you get the ridge in place? I realize that they would be toenailed to the top plate and face nailed to the joists but that wind was pretty intense.-->
measure once
scribble several lines
spend some time figuring out wich scribble
cut the wrong line
get mad
I'm curious about that too Skyecore.
I can think of a few ways...but I always had a different approach. Usually I had a post underthe ridge that I temp braced.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
yeah, The only way ive really done it is just temporarily brace it(ridge beam) up there. It never really occured to me that there was another way to do it.-->
measure once
scribble several lines
spend some time figuring out wich scribble
cut the wrong line
get mad
Skye, we've nailed the rafter onto the ridge, then lifted the two together.
There's a hundred differnt ways...I usually have some sort of scaffold set up and I just hold the thing while someone hands me two rafters.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
just holding it while somone hands you two rafters: I thought that it was really importand that the ridge beam be exzactly in the middle. I suppose that as long as the rafters were cut right and the building was square, it wouldnt be a problem because the rafters would canter the ridge beam..-->
measure once
scribble several lines
spend some time figuring out wich scribble
cut the wrong line
get mad
I dont frame, so I learned a lot on Larry Hauns Framing series from Taunton... they had it at my library on DVD.
i ought to check that out-->
measure once
scribble several lines
spend some time figuring out wich scribble
cut the wrong line
get mad
If you really are interested there is a huge series, my library has almost the whole collection. Even though I dont do all the different jobs, I have learned a lot of tricks that I can incorporate into my own work. It also allows me to feel more comfortable if someone says they want me to do a job I havent done before.
Thats the idea Skye. If the rafters aren't cut right, you'll know it immediately....the angles won't fit.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
"what keeps the rafters from blowing over in the wind before you get the ridge in place?"I didn't realize that it was just you and another guy. First of all it's dangerous setting rafters in the wind no matter what way you do it. I was just going off course as to why you would set the ridge first. Would you set the ridge first even if it wasn't windy?If you have at least three guys four is much better once you nail the four rafters in at the plate one guy holds one end up of the two rafters at the top and the other guy holds the other end up of the two rafters and then the third guy lifts the ridge into place. Once the ridge hits the bottom of the rafters the plumbcuts open up and as you slide the ridge up it wedges itself into the rafters and the rafters help hold the ridge up.When I lived in Cape Cod there were days that it was so windy we couldn't even work especially high up on a scaffold and sheathing a roof.Joe Carola
About a year and a half ago we were sheathing the floor (first floor). I was carrying a sheet of subfloor and the wind caught it. I had it straight out in front of me (it was parallel to the ground) about chest high. If I had let it go, I don't know how far it would have sailed :-) I just tried to get on top of it so it wouldn't go anywhere. That was wild. It w
Tim,When I was framing out in Cape Cod we were raising up a gable end and it was one of those windy days where we probably shouldn't have been working I was getting ready to nail a brace in when my boss screamed out to me to look out........I didn't even look up I just put my arms over my head ( #9 Block) ;-)... and got hit with a full sheat of 1/2" plywood. It hit me on edge right on my shoulder and it was summer time so naturally I had no shirt on.It knocked me through the ceiling beams and onto the second floor. I didn't get hurt but it left a perfect 1/2" by about 5 16/64" mark.. ;-) on my shoulder.Joe Carola
If it's a steady wind, could you use that day to sheath the upwind side of the house? Let the wind be a helping hand, holding the material in place while you nail it off. ;-)
-- J.S.
John, I remember a house that I used the wind to help me.
I was working for a guy and we were the only ones that showed up...it was cold and windy and it was roof sheathing day. He looked at me and told me that it was too windy to sheet the roof. I told him that if he was willing to stock it, I'd be willing to lay it. It was a big ranch and we were sheathing the back of the house. The lumber was in the front and he had to carry it through the house and stand it up on a plywood rack. The wind was blowing against the back of the house, so he had to fight it through the house and stack it.
I was just grabbing the sheets and tossing them up into the wind (it was a walkable roof) and letting the wind just carry it to the resting place. Basically, I was just following and guiding the sheets...not really carrying them.I was having a blast and it was remarkably easy. He was sweating and running and trying to keep up.
We got that roof done in record time.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
dont have an answer for your problem
but working winters and windy conditions, dont you give a dscount for labor???
kidding, no !!!
thats what people always ask me, hey its winter, you need work, should be cheaper right
yeah coste me tons more, slower to work, rusty trashed tools
oh yes
back to what you said
framing in the wind
we had a job on the coast mid winter, nasty day
and no bull, serioulsy
a seagull was flapping its wings and flying backwards
and the super got pissed we were moving slow
yep
framing in the wind is fun
at least we wernt tying to sheet a roof
otherwise it would have been a nantucket sleigh ride for someone
wow, its hard to believe people woulnt think about the other way, like: "is there an up-charge for poor wether?" I'm trying to think of some legit line of thinking there but drawing a blank.. Maybe thats when you ought to not take the job because the costomer is likely to be a##hole the whole way through.-->
measure once
scribble several lines
spend some time figuring out wich scribble
cut the wrong line
get mad
Part of growing old is knowing WHEN to just " go to the house".
Maybe tomorrow it won't rain.
Maybe tomorrow it won't be windy.
Maybe tomorrow it won't sleet.
Maybe tomorrow I'll work. ...maybe I won't.