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Yesterday the building inspectorsaid he could not grant a building permit on a pole structure with out documentation ( read aproved by a ‘design profesional’) For three years now I’ve been battering my head aginst this problem. it galls to spent 10% to over 100% of the cost of the structure for a design in line with published books on techniques that are not the standard baloon framing. sorry about the rant but shouldn’t like inocent untill proved guilty. the goverment shall grant the permitt unless it proves the structyure will not stand?
Thank you
Jeff Bybee
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Jeff - If you think that balloon framing is 'standard' maybe a little help wouldn't hurt.
*I've worked in cities, I've worked in the country. My experience is that an inspector will approve it if it looks like it will stand. If it's structurally questionable, instead of saying no, they may tell you to get it stamped by a PE. I don't know your inspector but I would guess that if you're using standard building practice, if all your spans check out, if your connections look solid, you'll get the permit.I'm assuming of course that you showed up with drawings of the thing that showed all of this, even if you did the drawings yourself.Commercial work is another thing. And if you're paying 100% of construction costs for drawings, find another engineer.
*Stamps needed here when it's over a 1000 sqft.Stamps here cost $300 if the plans are not produced by the holder of the stamp and upon his review, they check out to the codes and are well enough drawn.If you're more amateur than that, try a new country and good luck.near the stream, shakin my head in amazement,aj
*Here, a property owner can do his or her own drawings for any structure as long as it's a single family residence. Usually, the contractor dows the drawings and the home owner signs same. Commercial work or multi family requires a stamp. Although I've had code officials be pretty lenient in the interpretation of commercial and single family.
*i Stamps here cost $300 if the plans are not produced by the holder of the stamp In NJ this practice is referred to as "plan stamping" and is illegal.Also illegal for contractors to execute construction drawings. Design drawings are fine. In certain townships, construction officials do not accept drawings "done by the homeowner" if they don't believe the homeowner did them. By signing the plans, the homeowner is affirming that they executed them themselves. Homeowners regularly get into trouble with substandard plans, ie they try to file them and the inspector rejects them as inadequate, occasionally leaving the homeowner in the 'lurch.'Jeff
*As you must know...NJ has to deal with the mob and the unions...isn't someone's faather buried in the endzone down your way?near the stream just dealin with NJ-types on their vacations,ajMy best friend is on his way up from NJ next week in fact to vacation at my shack with the family...
*The issue of regulation and recent code changes for "pole barns" and similar post frame buildings has obviously changed. I receive an association magazine - Rural Builder I think is name - and it has discused tdiscussede at length. I recall it comes from condensing occupancy types or classes to include agricultural into commercial. Their big issue seemed to be the prohibition of combustible and/or unprotected (ie: wood) structure over a certain area limitation.Frankly, I don't mind if someone in the country stores their agri-products (hey? grain? cows?) in a big wood building without sprinklers but apparently some code officials think this is a problem. It may have arisen though from some horse "arenas" which suddenly had a crowd of people in them on occasion. Seems there could be a way to distinguish between the two.
*NJ i Types?Thanks a lot AJ. Well I forgive you because I was just there too - sailed out of Essex for a day on Champlain about 4 weeks ago on a beautiful July day w/15 knot winds. Hell with the stream the lake is great.Jeff
*Thankyou for your replys. not to sound too defencive I degreed in construction about 12 years ago and have done it on and off since. designing buildings had been an avocation. In college I specialised in unconventional designs, tested beams and studyed aulternite sewage systems. my design involved a 12 by 20 storage structure over a patio using 6 inch tip dia poles. The inspecter didn't even understand they were round poles not 6x6s which are, due to shape and uncut growth rings 1.4 times stronger than a true 6x6. till he asked me, dispite the drawing clearly showing they were round. I'd be happy to find a plan stamper for 300 bucks years ago I went to an engeneer an inspecter in another city recimended his first est for that pole addition was 300 to450 but then he came back with an estimate of 1000 to 1500. a second firm suposed to be familure with pole construction also estimated cost of at least 1000.the poles were conservitively spaced at 6 ' 6" insteed of the normal 12 on the long sides. Design weight of the building ( 40 lbs live and 10 dead for both floor and roof) is 24000 pounds. each pole of treated lodgepole pine coulld carry 22,619 lbs so 8 poles I belive is rather overkill.Is there a way to find an engineer willing to work with site built structures? like Ken Kern used to and does anyone know someone like that in Utah?thaankyouJef Bybee
*RI has a statewide code.. but stillhas 39 interpretations of what they will accept and reject....pulled a permit in Cranston a month ago.. they wanted stamped drawings to change a window header in a one storey room...<<> and plan review ( structural )are not the same thing.. ( or are they ?)anyhow.. with coastal construction , some communities require satmped prints... some don't..and we do one or two pole-structures a year...so far.. no plan review...like everything else.. you need a relationship with an engineer who will feel comfortable RISKING his stamp on YOUR drawings..why should he do it ?(the answer will determine the fee) ... help him/her out... put them at ease..show your calcs on the prints, so they can follow.. make it easy for them to check your work.. not hard..and lose the attitude..you went to school for your knowledge.. so did the structural engineer.. you need him/her more than they need you...b but hey , whadda i no ?
*I'm sorry that my attitude showed. as I've said a number of years of frustration have built. I think you know a lot and your sugestions are very good showing the calculations but Ive found they are very aware they are risking their stamp on each project and here in Utah every one Ive run into is very busy. I work with a modular home builder who had to wait three weeksas the engeneering firm they delt with had to stay on sight to watch and prepair 'as builts' on the steeple for a huge new meeting hall. is there a good way to find an open minded engineerthankyou for replyingJef
*I need to clarify....When we have plans stamped...the plans are gone over and checked....then corrections are made or additional items added and b then they are stamped...IT is 100% legal and good business.Last but not least a fee is paid for the above services performed.$300.00 is the least that it costs for plans that have already been drawn by someone who knows what they are doing...Ussually purchased plans that need a local stamp for local approval...In New York and in my county, that means someone holding a license from NYS.near the stream,aj
*Jeff...Mike is right on in his last few statements...You need to do some leg work and get your check book out as necessary...Your post here is just slowing you down and delaying the inevitable...Go and do...near the stream,ajPost back with a good joke to improve my mood!
*jeff.. ask yourself .. what's in it for them ?repeat business.. low risk.. slam dunks... and entry to projects that may develop more business..are you rural ? your choices are more limited..suppose you found a firm.. and you run a few prints by them.. and they drag it out and charge a bit much..the real question is.. what will they do on the second project... and the third..this is called building a relationship..don't try to get to third base on the first date..there won't be asecond date..lay it out and shop them just like you were one of your own customers trying to find a good designer...the engineering firms don't want to compete with you.. they just want to sell their services in the most efficient manner possible..help them do it
*Mike...your post here is right on...though you may be better at this than I am...You should start a topic on sub schmoozing in the business folder...near the stream learning as usual from Professor Smith,aj
*geesh, aj.. everytime you do that i look behind me to see who you're talkin about....i feel more comfortable when you're beatin me over the head with a 2x4...but, yeh... the philosophy is this...b the golden rule with an attitude
*Less flames....b less 2x4ssss!!!!!!Fighting the crown, near the stream,aj
*> shouldn't like inocent untill proved guilty. the goverment shall grant the permitt unless it proves the structyure will not stand? Not in my book. That would mean any moron could build anything, anywhere, unless the building inspector had time to hit all the jobsites, and try to prove what they were doing was wrong. Sounds impossible to me. Let's suppose they do that on one of your buildings. You put up the poles, put up the trusses, then the inspector comes by. He questions something you've done, but can't prove that it's wrong immediately. He goes his merry way, and you complete the building. A month later, the inspector shows up with proof you've done something wrong, and says you have to tear down the building. Doesn't sound like a workable solution to me.