Ive just been to three different schools . There are some changes that are new at least for the state of Arkansas.The new Arkansas State Plumbing Code will become law October this year . It has passed . Ill post a few and yall can respond from your area or argue mine .
1. Contractors must have a sign in front of every permitted job .
2. All lisensed tradesmen must have full posting on their work vehicles with numbers.
3. Every HVAC unit installed in the state must have a legible sign with thier idenification on the unit . A business card taped to unit will work.
4. The new tapes passed into law for HVAC arent working too well and we are to allow, “what works the best for our area”.
5. PVC ran for dryer vents has been outlawed in the wall , under floor , or even in concrete slab. It was never approved for heat. Metal vent is what dryer specs call for and so now its law. [this is a big arguement ]
6. The new law change that has some teeth in it. The contractor or company license holder is responsible for his helps license status. The contractor can now be fined for working empoyees who are not liscensed or carry a lisense that is out of their classification, such as an apprentice on a job by himself.
7. The International Fire Code has been passed into law as a requirement in the state and they have adopted all of our mechanical codes , plus the International Building Code.
8. The Arkansas State Contractors Board has made a homeowner law more strict . You may build your own house with out a license , but you have to live in it by the utility bill being in your name and it cannot be rented as thats commercial property. They will fine if its put up for sale before the CO is issued.
Theres plenty more but its late here.
Tim Mooney
Replies
#1 I wonder how that sign law'll fit in with th elocal jurisdictions that have laws against signs on lawns....
;)
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And does that mean that there will be a GC sign, an plubmers sign, and electricans sign and HVAC sign?
Sorry the sign deal is confusing. I should have spent more time on it but it was late;
All mechanical tradesmen that are liscensed with the state must possess a sign on the truck , both sides no smaller than 2 inches. The new law also says it must be posted on the out side in plain view. Seems they did some checking with another state and putting signs on the inside of the bee was preatedly reported. [whissed um off I guess]
They must posses a sign of any size on their equipment , not in the yard. A plumber may post a business card on the hot water heater , HVAC on the furnace , Electrical on the inside of the panel.
The general contractor must post his sign in the yard with phone numbers and license number .
The general is "now " responsible for all his subs qualifying their license to him . He must determine if their license is directly for the work they are doing . They must be a master to bid work from him and have a valid date of issuance.
The sub is responsible now for his help with the same guidelines.
Examples of which;
1. Master plumber sends help with no card to do a job. No lisense! The help gets fined 50 dollars on the first offense and the plumber gets fined 250.00.
2. Second senario; Contractor hires plumber with an expired lisense. 250 to the contractor and equally to the plumber. Second offense is 500, and third is pulling license permanantly , unless the board issues a variance for an amount of money posted.
The Contractor does not at this time have to post a sign on the truck.
Tim Mooney
there will be a GC sign, an plubmers sign, and electricans sign and HVAC sign?
That's what is common here. One town south, and the BI wants to see the permits on a per-sign basis (but the BI in question is a real Richard with a capital D).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Funny you should mention it . Its true . Local jurisdiction here has an ordinance against it . The codes are state law and supercede over city laws. They have to post the sign in the yard and I protect it from local ordinance.
Good one Piffin.
Tim Mooney
post the sign in the yard and I protect it from local ordinance
Wow, that's an interesting twist. Here (both cities) there's a dual review. First is Planning and Development, then it goes to Plan Review. Sign Ordinace compliance is in a separate depatment. If you get to "protect" contractor signage, that means a clever contractor can now have lighted signs on jobs (or signs with effects, etc.)--and the local sign ordinace is toothless.
Could be intersting.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
State codes always supercede local. What you mention hasnt happened , but you are right , it could be interesting .
The planning department doesnt get involved with signage. Its either me for approving a sign , to the police department inforcing violations . But they come to me first.
Tim Mooney
"4. The new tapes passed into law for HVAC arent working too well and we are to allow, "what works the best for our area"."
I am guessing that tapes is a typo, but I can't guess what it is suppose to be.
Hi Bill , been a long time and its good to post to ya .
Tape , is not a typo. I dont really know anything about it except they only aproved certain numbers on the tape desiginating only particular types , but it didnt work. The new tapes arent holding. So we go back to the ole silver strip tape.
Tim Mooney
There should be a law that washer and dryer be located on an exterior wall, so the dryer duct will be short as possible.
There is almost a law here, that they not be on an exterior wall, so the plumbing pipes don't freeze.
I try to design my laundries so that the two units install against a wall perpendicular to the exterior wall, leaving the ext wall for a window to give light and ventilation. Then I put the dryer on the side nearest the ext, and the washer on the inside.
This is obviously one of those matters of regional differences. Out in sunny smoggy southern CA, you don't need to worry about freezing, and with the AC running, you don't want to open a window and lety the smog roll in.
;)
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The one about living in a home owner house, we have that law must live in for two years.
In Vancouver, Canada, we have a little probelm.
We have a large immigrant inflow, and they like to have new houses.
Local inspectors appear to be a little more forgiving of owner-builders, and naturally, some of that population took advantage to do substandard building. While the "owner" moved in, our Canadian tax rules allowed the owner to not pay the 7% federal GST on the building, it also allowed the owner-builder to live in the house for one year and then sell it, thus escaping the Federal Capital Gains tax.
The second owner, naturally, started facing all the problems of substandard building, and soon the insurance companies became involved.
Thisgs are changing now.
Enforcement is stricter. Insurance on owner-built homes is becoming harder to get and more costly. Also, the various cities are red-flagging certain names for permits.
Naturally, the cry of "racial discrimination" is ringing out over the land.Quality repairs for your home.
Aaron the HandymanVancouver, Canada
MMM , descrimination . Thats a good word here to.
Tim Mooney
Tim: The only thing you can fault with my post is the spelling?
LOL!
I sure hope you never have that style of immigration.Quality repairs for your home.
Aaron the HandymanVancouver, Canada
Immigration is not building homes , but we do have self help homes . Anyone is allowed to build their own .
As you already know people dont keep these homes for much over 5 years on an average. Many of them are built out side the jurisdiction of inspections. I look for that to tighten up because of the problems assoiciated with homeowner work. Even id they hire subs , they are not wise enough to run their work like contractors are.
Homeowner built homes are a problem for me because the workers are often not qualified. Instead of inspecting , I find my self designing a fix for their problems. They are full of questions and mistakes are made rapidly. I will spend three times the time on them per house. Its really not fair to the builders that take a minimum amount of time .
The people who do the work are still the best the field . Contractors often make more mistakes than the workers trying to manage out of their field. The best people out there are tradesmen working in a specifac trade. They know their business.
Tim Mooney
It was a grey area and seriously abused . School teachers were contractors in the summer time . That has ended . Theres a new sherriff in town and I protect the tradesmen along with requiring them to be legal . Its fair . I often wondered what would happen if the carps hired out as practice teachers in the winter and some how was able to take some of the teachers money away!
Tim Mooney
Good point about the teachers. After reading your respnces about the signs, I wondered whether the contractors associations might have lobbied at state level to require the sign posting as a way to overcome local ordinances on no signs, and to help eliminate unlicensed 'contractors'.
Two sides on this. No opinion from me. Only observing it all.
Our local sign ord is simple, but it gets transgressed all the time. The codes enforcement guy is overworked and hits the high priority items as he gets to them. small town style.
Our ordinace is that the sign must be under six square feet in size, must be six feet setback from the traveled portion of the roadway ( to cover unpaved roads) and must be placed by the owner of the property in question and have some connection to the activity conducted legally on that property.
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1 year in nc.
just another day in paradise
Strangely enough, my laundry layout is exactly as you describe. Machines back up to an interior wall that's perpendicular to the outside wall, with the dryer in the corner for the shortest possible vent run.
-- J.S.
nothing strange about it. When it is the most utilitarian design, it will rise to the surface time after time
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The maximum distance is 20 ft , so thats pretty short to say what you think is right, however they can vent straight up most of the time on a single story. I require them to vent through the roof . [my call] Its not code to vent through the roof . Authority decision. Wasnt much of a decision to me .
Tim Mooney
" I require them to vent through the roof ."
I think that a logical case can be made that it is better to vent out the side wall.
Makes it easier to verify that it is working and do any needed cleaning.
Bill, I fully agree ! But they only have 20 feet to geter done . I would rather see it low in a side wall my self.
Tim Mooney
"5. PVC ran for dryer vents has been outlawed in the wall , under floor , or even in concrete slab. It was never approved for heat. Metal vent is what dryer specs call for and so now its law. [this is a big arguement ] "
Now for the big arguement !!!!!!!!
PVC was never tested for by any company for heat . The dryer manufactors disallow it by stating metal vent only in their specs . This is what caused the regulation change.
What to do about it ; Copper is too expensive , metal will rust in a hoizontal assembly just like the vents ran from floor furnaces do and kill people.
It is the desision of the administrative authority whats next and this is my decision in my local;
You may run galvinized pipe anywhere with the exception if its under concrete floor it must be incased in 4 inches of concrete slurry with two bricks turned sideways for support. When the pipe rusts out, it will be incased in concrete.
You may run cast iron pipe under concrete alone for a dryer vent .
The main problem is that the pipe will rust out and catch lint .
Solution is that we need a PVC thats heat tested. Its been working for over 30 years!.
Tim Mooney
OK for the purpose of discussion - if you bury PVC in crete, when it burns out instead o rusting out it will still leave a channel in the crete.
The assumption you make with rusted out pipe is that when it is gone, it is all gone. But the fact is, it will likely rust out in the bottom first, where the condensation puddles. Then the top will cave into the hollow channel, in some places, undoubtably blocking the ventilation and allowing dust/lint particles to catch up on the jagged rusted edges and blocking the ventilation.
Not arguing - just thinking this through...
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Tim is chuckeling,....
You once told me that we are going to have to find something to disagree over before we can have a debate.
I make no assumption about all of the pipe being gone . I also agree that the rusted bottom will catch lint . Probably with pieces of pipe clogging the vent. It can be routed though.
My best thought is to allow PVC, but currently I cant .
Cast iron would be my choice right now considering the cost of copper. Someone said copper in 4 inch is 8.00 a foot and thats a lot of money where I live. However copper would be the best.
Tim Mooney
Edited 8/1/2004 8:42 pm ET by Tim Mooney
Weird thread on BT but I understand. You would be sued out of business quickly I see mooney. Good luck moving boy- Lifting anything heavy besides your head today?! Tim is a run boy who thinks himself better then he is and it is coming his way punk! Hey Pif- whats going on? ;) -Brogan
Do you comments have any pertinence to the thread?
Jon Blakemore
If they do, i sure don't see the relationship.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
What part are you referring to? For starters , read dllevis`s post. Id be happy to answer if I knew which subject you were trying to discuss? What did you form your opinion on ?
Tim Mooney
What was going on was a decent conversation untiol you decided to be rude. Displays of ignorance and bad manners are better saved for the Tavern. They are more entertaining there.
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> Someone said copper in 4 inch is 8.00 a foot ....
I just bought a 20' of 3" DWV, it was $5.62/ft. So that sounds about right.
-- J.S.
Usually in the codes there are sections that permit the AHJ to use alternate materials and or methods. The AHJ must make findings to support the approval of the materials in question. Time tested installations are a good finding. Due to the inherant failings of other materials etc. These findings must be documented and kept in the file of the Building Department.
What about aluminium pipe for dryer vent? No problems with rusting.
Or stainless steel. I'm pretty sure I've seen stainless steel stove pipe around.
Nothing . I think the code says metal. If it were to be underneath a slab , I think it should be sleeved for support .
I should mention what the chief state inspector said in class;
He thought that metal pipe should be sleeved in pvc under a slab. Everyone seems to have their take on it personally. Thats why its an arguement .
Tim Mooney