The time in which the building department performs inspections and releases permits.
There have been a lot of typing here about the subject above with no back feed cause there wasnt an inspector here .
I hope this helps ;
Back in the winter I was looking for somthing to do . The spring got started and I was filling in a day very nicely leaving nothing on the desk.
Summer is here and the heat with it . Building starts have mostly started and some builders are on there third start or set of three. Schools perform their work when school is out. The heat and humidity factor brings a tremendous demand for air conditioning inspections. We run heat pumps here mostly. Plans still are comming in and lay on the plan tables untouched. Part time help was brought in for plan reviews and hes not keeping up. So, I did this ;
First call is “emergency”. People with out power or air conditioning . Hospital, nursing homes, apartments, homes, old folk care homes – non assisted , etc.
Second call is services in need “waiting “. Footings , drives, resturants, etc. Men and women are seen as crews stopped until an inspection is completed . Places of business rates the same with staff and customers.
Third call is non present imediate waiting that costs money per hour to the customer. [sorry] Building permits , partial permits that dont hold up a crew. Temporary water meter and power pole inspections. Questions about codes if it takes office time doing research.
Fourth call is business registrations , plan reveiw , any action that can be pushed up another day until possibly it moves into a class three call, or in extreme conditions a class two.
The fall will see a drop so summer help to ask for is out of the question for a qualified inspector to help out.
I hope this might help you understand what every authority faces. But then I was told the other day a carpenter could not be hired and others dont return calls or decline work. I cant decline . I have to put it out on the calender with no choice . I have to return every call .” When “, is the issue.
Tim Mooney
Tim Mooney
Replies
Maybe it would be possible to convince the policy makers of the jurisdiction to have the building department on an enterprise account. This will allow you to hire help when building revenue increases, all without effecting the general fund. My state requires that the fees collected for building inspection are used for that purpose. To put these fees in the general fund is to create a tax on the builders as well the new owners. To spend general fund monies on the building dept. is a subsidy to the builders.
I wont copy and paste your post , but please read it again.
Its a wonderful idea , but heres the problem not to shoot an idea down thats reasonable and has merit.
The mayor and I discussed just that ; summer help. The city could pay it in times of great need , but could not come fall.
So heres the real question that needs to be answered back to you in detail.
A plan reviewer follows the code check- off sheet doing one thing in office not dealing with people.
A building inspector is another animal . He has a lot of experience and still there is a tremendous learning load with all the codes he or she inforces. Even knowledgeable inspectors research code definitions because we have to have back up if we make a solid decision in the field . People do question codes every day. We still make mistakes. Big mistakes could cost the city letigation, or the owner of a house a lot of money. Human saftey is another huge reponsibility. I often think just one mistake in a certain area and a family could burn alive . Many could could die in a night club which has happened. People die in fires every day and its not an easy thought with my job. Dont do the job right and it can cost a few hundred a year in extra costs for utitilities per year per building. Noone likes what an inspector has to say to often and it takes an individual that will stand up.
So tell that kind of individual that you want to hire him starting in June and lay him off the last day of August. That type of individual makes at least twice what an inspector makes. That type of individual are builders that are knowledgeable and can make decisions rapidly and handle a load of resposibility. Ok , 3 to 4 times what an inspector makes in peak season.
Me ? I was the top applicant out of 12 that was unemployed , not employed. I had had 2 heart attacks , open heart surgery , and a stroke. Im not supposed to lift over 35 lbs. Their insurance doesnt cover me . I was happy to have something to do and was afraid I wouldnt be able to work again. Im the one thats lucky because I did my 30 minutes watching ,As The World Turns . Id rather be dead than live like that.
Tim Mooney
Tim
Something that you already know but, look for an applicant that is retired or physically not able to do the work but once did it, know anybody like that! Should be able to find somebody that would help out at least temporarily.
Doug
My county has a couple retired builders posing as inspectors. Fairly good level of knowledge. One plumbing inspector doesn't want to get his shoes dirty and does drive-by inspections. Hands you an inspection sticker as he drives by without getting out of the truck. The framing inspector has a heart condition and won't climb stairs. You can do anything you please on the second floor and roof. If you hire a retired guy, at least make sure he can climb a set of stairs or buy him a set of binoculars. But, the electrical guy has x-ray vision. Miss one staple and you failed.
"My county has a couple retired builders posing as inspectors. Fairly good level of knowledge. One plumbing inspector doesn't want to get his shoes dirty and does drive-by inspections. Hands you an inspection sticker as he drives by without getting out of the truck. The framing inspector has a heart condition and won't climb stairs. You can do anything you please on the second floor and roof. If you hire a retired guy, at least make sure he can climb a set of stairs or buy him a set of binoculars. But, the electrical guy has x-ray vision. Miss one staple and you failed."
Thanks Bob ,
Up front and personal dealing with that would not be good , but it made funny reading since we are not involved.
Tim Mooney
Those are actually nice guys. Just have to bend a little to work with them. I Don't think I'd want to be their supervisor, though.
Thanks Tim, for a very helpful post that will likely make the rounds at my office. We do a lot of school design. It helps to remember that some of the frustration we encounter at times is simply due to work overload for all of us during "the building season."
Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
Golden????
You get plated???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
I just found out a few days ago that we are expecting a new delivery from the stork come January. Yea, I'm golden!
But my handle has always been a tongue in cheek on the infamous "Golden Rectangle." I refer to architecture that does not conform to "divine guidelines" as being designed on the "Golden Wrecked Angle." I figured it was as good a time as any to make it a little easier to catch on to fact that, try as I might, I still fit that description to a tee.Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
Kevin ,
there is not a lot of people reading this post probably because of the title . If I would have listed the real title it would be over a hundred. I have read so many posts over this subject that I thought it might benifit to have a look at the other side.
Of course I cant speak for anyone , but I just know its the same problem the builders are having in peak season in a town thats booming like this one.
Ive talked to every builder thats doing any volume. One thing is certain . If they are busy , they are looking for help that can take responsibility . Some are just looking for warm bodies and are not choosy knowing they cant hire Mr Potential .
Tim Mooney
there is not a lot of people reading this post probably because of the title
Tim, I jump on that title first.
SamT
Well, thanks .
Tim Mooney
You have a good sense of responsibility Tim. And all the reasons you mentioned are reasons the building dept. has to be funded adequately. A hurried inspector will be far more prone to mistakes than one who can take the necessary time to properly do an inspection or plan review. It realy comes down to the level of service the builders want and what they will pay for. If they expect same day service this creates cost to the jurisdiction they have to pay for. If three days for an inspection and eight weeks for a plan review is the service level of choice so be it. Some evening hold a town hall meeting and invite the elected officials and the builders and explain service level to them and they can make a choice and you get a directive you can live with. If this does not work you will have at least tried to solve the builders problem. As for liability to you or the jurisdiction, check the state law on public official imunity.
Untill I was permited to have an enterprise account for my building dept. I did as you are doing.
Tim,
Just a reminder that while you are rushing around this summer - DON'T FORGET TO WALK. We want to be getting these 'From the Desk's for a long time to come.
Tim,
What happened with the restraunt? Thought about it all week. DanT
? Restaurant ?? I must have posted something semi-conscious, 'cause I don't remember what you are talking about.
That shoulda been to Tim. He had a thread on a ventilation issue in a restaurant, IIRC.
-- J.S.
The resturant .
The resturant was drawing in sewer gas from negative pressure from the vent hoods that didnt have fresh air.
I met with the state inspector today and he out lined what should be done . Bring fresh air in on a fan wired with the same switch that turns on the exuast fans.
The contractor was on site too taking notes.
I required the owner to also bring a fresh air vent into the furnace. .
I wrote a letter today to the occuopant and a copy to the owner of the building.
I had already shut the business down verbally , but required the issues fixed before it could reopen.
Thanks for your help Dan .
Tim Mooney
Thanks,
Tim Mooney
Tim,
Do you have contractors that you are so confident of their work that you only glance at the building before you pass inspection?
I've seen inspectors who feel comfortable enough with some builders to do that. They show up on the site nod to the builder and fill in the form and they are out of there. I also walked behind an inspector who measured the nail spacing and wrote the guy up for infractions that were as little as a few inches off in a spot or two. I don't know if the builder had a bad reputation or had pizzed off the inspector or what.
"Do you have contractors that you are so confident of their work that you only glance at the building before you pass inspection?"
I have builders and mechanics that I "want " to do that when Im busy. Truth be known they dont have to pass the same inspection someone avoiding me say will get. So sometimes they do get an eaiser inspection. Now I better explain;
Ive got a heat and air guy that goes the extra mile in every department. He buys permits , calls for inspections, his work is always superior to others,..... I said always. He is 100 percent predictable from my point of view of inspecting always giving me exellent work to look at. Hes a big help because he knows "all" his codes. Hes willing to help and share his knowledge with me. Ive even called his cell phone to ask him a code instead of taking the time to go back to the office.
So do I scour over ever joint he makes ? Of course not .
But come to my town doing bad things and Ill load my guns [codes]. Mess with my people in my town in an unfair way and I will hunt you down . I can have licenses pulled.
So do some people get better treatment from me ? Yes they do.
Tim Mooney
I think that is as it should be, The real pros get a break while the slap dash artist gets his dander up. Can't be easy for an inspector to have to confront guys like that and I'm not sure why someone would be willing to take that level of grief, sure isn't the paycheck!
"The real pros get a break while the slap dash artist gets his dander up. "
I don't think that he should get a break.
The basic idea of codes and inspections is to "insure" a minimum level of work that is safe.
Now no inpect will or even can insure that each and every item mets all parts of the codes 100%.
So he samples and looks what have been problem area.
So the generally good contractor has fewer know problem areas and he needs fewer samples to be reasonably insured that the job was done properly.
To give him a "break" would be to overlook a know defect.
The only place other allowance that might be give for a "good contractor" vs the "bad contractor" would be to ask for fixes with writting them up and requiring a re-inspection.
Bill, I suggest that we are talking about the same thing with a slight variety in use of words..
I don't think given a well trusted contractor an easy inspection is a "break" it's just practical use of time. As he said in the summer he's extremey busy and can't properly give everything his full attention..
Why look for problems where historically there never have been problems? Wouldn't his time be better spent looking over the new guys work? or spending extra time where there are issues that require extra attention?
As time permits he can reverify the trusted contractors work and make sure that no sloppy habits have slipped in..
I like it when my inspector stops over, I'm usually mentally many steps ahead of where I am in actual work and I can pick his brain regarding the next bit on my construction schedule.. I understand how hard pressed he is and try to avoid taking extra time in the busy era. I think that respect for his time has allowed me to do things that if he were uncomfortable with my work could be a real hassle to document..
Let me try to explain again;
If Im backed up seriously , I may or may not check an added duct pipe under the floor that he has added . If I turn him down over something and he tells me he will fix it , I may call him back and ask him if its done. If a temporary pole needs attention , I may call the electrician and tell him Im holding power until the pole is in order with my requests. If he says hes added the extra work , I may call and have power hooked up. The honest good mechanic may get this treatment as awarded. I can always check back when Im passing by with time to spend as I should. Even if its spot checked , it keeps the honest, honest.
If Im unable to gain good repore with a mechanic , then he gets checked fully every time and charged sometimes with the extra inspections until I feel hes with my program. Hopefully he will get smarter and make our relationship meaningful.
They do it with our kids in school and reward merit . Why should this be any different ?
Of course this is only my view point and Im not selling it . Just my judgement as how to spread my time in heavy inspections to get every one inspected. If I had the time that I had in winter it wouldnt be a question in the first place. Id simply do it .
One thing Id like you to remember ;
You can pass on the extra work and cull it as you like . All you have to say is that Im booked and cant get to it . Nuff said. I cant . I have to make all the inspections I get.
Tim Mooney
Tim,
I think you are doing good and doing right.
You are also following the path of every inspector I've worked with. I have been able to work with every inspector on any job that I am the one to see the inspector. Some take time to get to know me and others see what I am about right away.
I see the inspector as a source of knowledge. I will have all my questions lined up and in a notebook for when he comes a-calling. I listen to them and follow their advice. When I disagreed with them, I have been able to reach a meeting of the minds. If I can't ever meet their mind, I will not be afraid to tell them to put it in writing.
SamT
". If I can't ever meet their mind, I will not be afraid to tell them to put it in writing."
Yup. If I get in too big a hurry and dont explain my self then Im setting my self up to be questioned. I still have to show it in writing as you call it which really is copied from a code book. Ive got a color copier that I can lay a book on or I normally can extract the page from a binder type code book .
At any rate you have an exellent point . An inspector needs to explain himself by definition.
It should be a learning process on both sides . Im not afraid to say , "Im gonna check on that and Ill call you ". Cell phones make it simple.
Tim Mooney
Tim
I think that is basically what I said.
What I objected to was frenchy's "The real pros get a break".
I don't see what you said that you are doing was giving them a BREAK.
A BREAK would be to overlook something that you knew was sub-standard.
I don't think it's so much a break or a reward. Just like a smart fisherman goes to the place where he catches the most fish in a day, the inspector should put his time where he'll find the most code violations, and get them corrected.
If anything, this is sort of a disadvantage to the good contractor. Even with the best of intentions, knowledge, and skill, it's still possible to every now and then have a total brain fart, and overlook something important. The good guys get less attention from that fresh pair of eyes. If I make a mistake, I'd rather have it found by an inspector than a fireman.
-- J.S.
"If anything, this is sort of a disadvantage to the good contractor. Even with the best of intentions, knowledge, and skill, it's still possible to every now and then have a total brain fart, and overlook something important. The good guys get less attention from that fresh pair of eyes. If I make a mistake, I'd rather have it found by an inspector than a fireman."
John , thanks for that part of your post . You are correct . You are dead on correct .
Story;
We have this absolutely good solid builder here . He flies along making hardly any mistakes. The easiest to work with and complies well to codes." Mr near perfect."
When I was training on and the other was going out we missed 7 violations with the heat and air. It wasnt inspected. Why?
Because we were so busy dealing with folks that didnt want to follow codes , we let his job slide when we didnt get a call for an inspection on the heat and air. I guess we were thinking he would be on top of it because hes nearly always right there . His name is well respected by us both .
Two months later the state inspector shows up in front of my desk and says , lets go. The owner called him out because the system failed him and he figgured we inspected it so he went to the top. We fixed the problem in 7 working days and the man got a brand new unit. He was happy .
Guess what ? The builder wasnt . The situation hurt his position with the owner and who knows who else by word of mouth. He was right . He wanted his jobs inspected and deserved it . We werent there for him until after a state inspector was called. .
Tim Mooney