There have been threads proclaiming the greatness of FLW. why?
In own case, have washed with cold water (both inlets hooked to cold) for 4 decades with no cleaning problems, so the supposed energy savings issue is moot, also on own well, so water close to ‘free’.
With a front loader one needs to pull up a chair or bend over – who needs that unless you build a stand for the things. Laundromat dryer heignt is right for dryers, etc.
How about leaks on flw?
So, for my situation, what if any would be the advantage of a FLW??
BTW, as some may surmise, I do have 2 refurbished top loaders in storage against the day I’m too old to fix the 40 YO top loading Kenmore still going strong (did replace the cheapo plastic disk timer with custom microswitch setup decades ago) . Probably would still be using the Maytag wringer we got when we were first married except my parents bought us the ‘newfangled’ top loader as a housewarming gift.
Replies
Clothes last longer because they aren't beat up by the agitator.
No leaks from mine.
They spin the clothes so dry that time in the dryer is less, so there are some energy savings.
You don't have to build a stand, you can buy one with the washer.
Well water comes from the ground, and it isn't replaced as quickly as it is used. Just because you think it is "free" doesn't give you the right to waste it. Sorry, you asked.
"Well water comes from the ground, and it isn't replaced as quickly as it is used."
That's not true in most places.
On one issue at least, men and women agree; they both distrust women. [H.L. Mencken]
Another eco myth in my opinion. In most areas water is replinished anually. In many areas people use surface wells (30 feet or less). They certainly are replenished each year, without a doubt. And since surface water and wells are replaished annually and ultimately liches deeper, deeper water tables are replenished as well. It is ture that in some areas, agriculture is "mining" (in the sense that they use it faster than it is replaced) water tables.
But to assume the poster is in one of these areas is a bit brash.
And I must ask, do you have a lawn composed of other than native plants? Do you water such a lawn? Well, then I accert that it is you who by placing one WASTED drop on such that is the threat to the environment. If! (notice teh !!!! mark), either you or the origninal poster is a threat.
I do not have a "native" lawn, but I would like one. The town isn't too receptive to the idea- but that may change in the future.
I do not bag my lawn clippings because the mower mulches them. The mower is set on the highest setting and I do not water my grass at all.
However, I see plenty of well people near me that have awfully green lawns in the middle of a drought here in the Midwest.
we just bought front loaders in december...
there is much less wear and tear on our clothes and we have a lot more capacity
The last time I repaired our Maytag top-loader, I could see it was on its last legs: the tub was showing bad signs of wear. I quickly did my research about why I should buy the more expensive front-loader. And it was obvious: half the water, half the detergent, true-cold setting so that the detergent always worked, amazing spin-cycle that cut's drying time by half, and it's far more gentle with your cloths, and particularly sheets and towels.
Bought one, love it, do it again.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
1. Capacity. Some are huge.
2. Flexibility of programing. I can cook my nasty underware, or easily handle the queen's cashmeres.
3. Function. My front loaders have taken out stains top loaders couldn't budge.
Whoops, had to add the second smaller pic. Same one.
Junkhound,
I am with you on this one. When the Maytag front loader first came out my grandma bought one.
It has run one or two loads a week for 8 years or so and the motor control board just burnt out requiring both it and the motor to be replaced. Total parts bill is around 250 dollars.
I don't think I ever spent more than a hundred dollars in parts maintaining my twenty plus year old top loader that frequently runs two loads a day. The only thing that would go bad is the solenoids controlling the water valves.
Front loaders don't have good ventilation so mold grows in them which doesn't really hurt anything but it never happens in a toploader.
All my peers are eager to upgrade to the front loaders. When I think of the resources used to build the new washer and recycle the old top loader I wonder how long it takes to recoup any savings in operating it.
Most people give their clothes to the goodwill long before they are worn out and I wear mine out using them not washing them so I don't buy the argument that they make your clothes last longer. Maybe they are better if you own a lot of extraordinarily delicate clothing.
I question the notion that they are better at removing stains. With a little bit of prescrubbing a spot with the appropriate detergent/stain remover I don't think a top loader is any less effective than the front loaders.
The only feature I like is the spin dry cycle.
I think the washing machine industry did too good a job on the top loaders (never wore out) and had to come up with a new and improved washer so people would feel like they needed one.
Even though I am biased it surprises me that no one else is supporting your perspective on this one.
karl
I wear my clothes until they wear out. The time until replacement with the front load washer is longer than when I had a top loader.
My clothes do come out cleaner when washed with the front load washer.
The resources used to replace a working machine with another working machine is a valid argument. My old, working machine was given to my dad- he happened to need a new(er) one at the time. My new front loader will wash more clothes in a single load than the old "super capacity" top loader.
Yes, I do have some mold issues with the door seal. I did not wipe that area dry per the instructions after use. I do not know if the new ones are any better, but I can get my seal replaced (or do it myself).
My front loader saved me $10 a month in water- before the rates went up.
No parts have broken in mine, but I know there are more parts to replace should something break.
"Most people give their clothes to the goodwill long before they are worn out..."
Did you take a survey on that???
I wear out everything. I've never given a piece of clothing away.
Many are saved from sin by being so inept at it. [Mignon McLaughlin]
Most people give their clothes to the goodwill long before they are worn out..."
Did you take a survey on that???
I wear out everything. I've never given a piece of clothing away
Not only that, I BUY almost all my clothes from Goodwill!
I don't think I ever spent more than a hundred dollars in parts maintaining my twenty plus year old top loader that frequently runs two loads a day. The only thing that would go bad is the solenoids controlling the water valves.
Mom likes to talk about the old Kenmore washing machine she used to have. Over the 20 or so years of raising a family, that thing did thousands of loads. That thing was like the Energizer bunny. When she moved to town, the still going strong old Kenmore stayed with the house. The new top-loader she bought went about a year before it needed a repair. And then about a year after that before it needed another. In its first 5 years of life, I think it saw the repair man 3 or 4 times. One of her friends had bought a new top loader without the extended warrenty, and it died about 3 months after the 1 year warrenty expired. They wanted $2-300 to repair it. Shoot, you can buy a new one for that much!
The new machines just aren't made like the old ones. And we aren't talking about front load or top load. The new ones just aren't made to last. jt8
"If you don't make mistakes, you aren't really trying." -- Coleman Hawking
My understanding is that front loaders are being pushed by the Government as a water saving tool. There will come a time when the only top loaders you will have will not have a center driven agitator.Our Maytag top loader is almost five years old with only one service call and that was not so much a repair but a retrieval of a foreign object that jammed the agitator.
While there may be a federal push this acknowledgement should not be interpreted as a bad thing. My first experiences with front-loaders was ~1980 commercial units in laundromats. It wasn't revolutionary then and shouldn't be now. Just a more efficient use of energy and water.
My wife runs the costume department of a historic site....she keeps something like 80 costumed staff going through the season, and then gets stuff ready for next year.....she knows laundry. Also has a degree in textile science. She swears by the front loaders; that's what we have at home as well. Uses less everything, does a better job....I don't see a downside.
Also agree with the comments about loading/unloading.....not a big deal, and dryers have always been oriented that way, right?Cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
"The new ones just aren't made to last"
I agree totally with this. My mom is using the same Maytag washer and dryer she has had for 25+ years. I think she has had each worked on once in that period for bearings going out.
We on the other hand have had our Kenmore dryer worked on 4 times in the three years we have had it and the Kenmore washer repaired once in that period. All the failures were control boards going out. On the dryer the same board went out three times in just over a year. The tech who worked them each time said that 75% of the repair work he does is electronics failures. Of course Sears wanted to sell us extended warranties for both, but the warranties were something like 1/3 the price of a new machine.
My wife really wants to switch to the new front loaders but I want to give them a couple years to get up to the same crappy level of reliability we have for our current machines.
One more pro and con.
Pro: With the front loader, I can put things on top of the washer (I wish I could I didn't, but I do).
Con: I don't like and of the HE detergents. They all seem to make our clothes smell funny. I end up using a regular detergent, about a teaspoon full.
It's been my impression for a long time that only cheap clothes get an early recycle to "Goodwill"; in my experience, people who buy quality clothes wear them through their useful life.The "Goodwill" option seems more for life-style changes: retirement, significant dimentional changes, activity changes, moving, ...And children's clothes, again in my experience, seem to get cycled quite freely through networking circles. I'd guess that between 1 and 10, at least ¾ of my son's clothes were hand-me-downs and that more than ½ went on to another family after he'd used them..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
With kids clothes, you'll find the second hand shops are full of top quality stuff - grandma buys designer labels for the little ones, and they're too small, or the kid wears them once and grows out of them....it's amazing how much really good quality stuff is available for young (up to 4) kids; after that, they tear hell out of them too quickly.
We bought one. It seems to wash better with less soap and less water. Also the guy who sold us ours guaranteed that it would spin clothes to to almost being damp. So far he was right, it really does get them drier.
The down side is , the cycle seems to take longer, and I agree, it is a pain to unload at the height it's at.
Best washer I ever used was the old open top loading type with the roller wringers that all our grandmothers used. They kept it outside in the back of the bunkhouse on the cattle ranch where I worked in Montana. No dryer except a clotheslin and that very dry Montana air. Half hour those duds were dry as a bone. I felt like I was a part of history using that thing.
Based on our 3 years with front loaders, I'd say
Pro:
Uses less water, which is always good, no matter where your water comes from
Less abuse of clothes
Clothes finish cycle not as wet, so it takes less energy to dry
Con:
Loading/unloading is harder unless you have a pedestal
If you forget an item, and interrupt the cycle, the door will drip water on the floor
Did you ever play with the rollers while they were wringing out the clothes? I did when I was 6 yo and caught my hand then my arm in it. Luckily it just broke my arm. They are capable of peeling the skin right off your arm and crushing the muscle. I haven't seen an injury like that it twenty years, but I have talked to geezers as old as myself that have done it. My dad was a doctor, and he didn't X-ray it for a week. "If the bones not through the skin it's not an emergency."
No, I didn't play with the rollers on that thing. I heard too many horror stories and besides I was 19 at the time and working very hard as a ranch hand....just starting to grow some brains.
You ever hear the expression "got her t*t caught in a wringer?" If it happened, bet it was painful. DW claims that "mammygrams" are like that....
You know when you are watching a movie and a guy gets really racked and you just instinctively cringe in empathy. Well you just did that to me - my gut fell out, my shoulders hunched, and I'm still cringing as I type this. Ouch, Ouch, Ouch.
I've had a mammagram, and it wasn't THAT bad. They aren't comfortable, but not like my mental visual of a wringer.
Seems like that was a Monty Python animation somewhere along the line.
jt8
"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." -- Geoffrey F. Abert
Here's another head scratcher.
When I was in high school (around the time humans emerged from cave dwelling) a friend's mom had a front loader that washed and dried the clothes. Think it came from Europe. No switching the clothes from washer to dryer. Just throw them in and they come out done.
Any idea why that never really caught on? I'd buy one in a heartbeat.
"A job well done is its own reward. Now would you prefer to make the final payment by cash, check or Master Card?"
>>Any idea why that never really caught on? I'd buy one in a heartbeat.The two machines of that type that I've used had looooong dry times. Also, my impression is that they tend to have less load capacity than we're used to here--probably since they're sized to fit into the smaller living spaces more common abroad.
I'm looking for a new stacking unit for our carriage house, and I've noticed several of the units where it is both washer and dryer.There are two models at abt, here is one
http://www.abtelectronics.com/scripts/site/site_product.php3?id=18973I think I also saw units at Walmart.
>>I've noticed several of the units where it is both washer and dryer.
Thanks I'll give it a look see. Even if drying time is slower, throw the clothes in and forget them sounds good to me.
"A job well done is its own reward. Now would you prefer to make the final payment by cash, check or Master Card?"
I have the Maytag Neptune SuperStack.
Many of the early washers were front load. The very first "automatic washer", the 1938 Bendix, was front load.
See it here: http://www.automaticwasher.org/FUN/1938Bendix.jpg
They continued making front loaders well into the '50s.
Here is another: http://www.automaticwasher.org/FUN/john-56washing.jpg
The story goes that the glass door was added for marketing purposes so that folks could see what was going on in there.
As we grew to accept that a machine could really clean our clothes, there was no need to observe!
The Jacobs Launderall from the 40's loaded from the top, but the drum was oriented horizontally. I strange hybrid similar to some newer machines I saw in France.
http://www.automaticwasher.org/FUN/13_Launderall+5+Basket+Opened.jpg
Edited 3/20/2006 12:18 pm ET by csnow
Saw one at a home show last month. Came from Europe, don't remember the brand.
http://www.equatorappliance.com/productimages/products/combowasher_dryers_central.asp
never used one, but it looked really interesting when I saw it.
Thanks. I'll have a look at that. The web site shows they actually have a vented model, which gives me a little better feeling about it too.
Thanks again.
"A job well done is its own reward. Now would you prefer to make the final payment by cash, check or Master Card?"
Many folks have already presented good/bad reasoning for front-loading vs. top-loading. I would find it difficult to blame a front-loader for a control board burning out. Anyone looking at those things will be amazed that some of those boards are sitting in wax-molded pieces. How can one fault the where the door is located on this kind of bad design?
Also, the cases in which mold developed was from improperly designed drip-catch lips near the bottom of the door, which has a class-action suit played out and a re-design to eliminate the problem. I think those that seek out front-loaders are typically not in a convenience-condition such as yourself. I personally know of no one that has both H/C connected to the same cold pipe. I also do not know anyone that's on well-water.
And the benefits of non-agitated cleaning, reduced water, less water in the post-spin clothing (meaning less dryer time) all yield to the common interest. Ask yourself this, is it mass delusion or Candid Camera playing a joke on you? If there were no benefits at all and the majority of the buyers just 'dumb' then count yourself lucky and move on. But I think your post is in itself proof that there must be some benefit, and your current position is more of an acceptance than a rule.
If I were going to be manufacturing and selling these things, I'm going to be more focused on urbanites, not folks on rural lands and well-water. Heck, get rid of your dryer and use a clothes line. :)
Less water.
Less than half the detergent needed. This impacts longevity of clothes. BTW, spot/ stain removers are very harsh on fabrics.
Less bleach needed if/ when used.
Spin cylce does most of the drying. Less energy required when using dryer or schlepping it to the clothesline.
Better rinsing due to greater spinning. Another reason why clothes are cleaner.
No agitation, therefore no pulling on clothes. How many times have you noticed something wrapped around the agitator? Any idea of the tugging done durng the wrapping?
F
There he goes—one of God's own prototypes—a high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.
—Hunter S. Thompson
from Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas
I am a little puzzled by all the remarks about how they are hard to load or unload...the door is at the same height as the door on the dryer and no one seems to have any problems putting the clothes in them.
Front load washers are nothing new, my parents had a Westinghouse front load washer and matching dryer that they bought in 1956.
Front load washers are nothing new, my parents had a Westinghouse front load washer and matching dryer that they bought in 1956.
That is part of my wonderment about the present 'craze' over front loaders, why were top loaders ever built if the front loaders have always been so great? Bendix made a front loader in the late '40s.
It is about getting warm enough outside to put the clothes lines back up, as the dryers never get run between April and October (unless like some years it rains all of September). Think we will keep the top loader for another few decades.
Re: well water - was 'lucky' enough to have built my house 4 years before the water main and sewer went down the street and so am able to still be on a well with septic. Neighbors fork out about $60 a Month for water and sewer (county built a $3 BILLION sewer plant to protect the salmon) - over the last 35 years that $60 mo. translates to about $25K, enough to buy a couple used backhoes and dozers with my kind of 'front loader' <G>
If you are happy with what you have you don't have to change. The top loader is working fine for you, go ahead and use it till it's dead.
Everybody has already mentioned the benefits of the front loader, and that's what I have. I would never go back. Someday most machines will be front loading or redesigned high efficiency top loaders.
I still drive old cars that pollute more, and have worse mileage. Nobody has forced me to have a fuel injected car yet. But I'm sure someday my daily driver will be an efficient newer model.
I'm with you. $1000 plus is a tough sell.
I have a Maytag from the late 60s, which I bought for $25 and has been running with no repairs at all for 7 years now. Funny thing is that the same one appears in the basement in "That 70s Show".
This replaced a Kenmore (Whirlpool) from the 70s that I got for free. It ran 6 years with only a minor repair until the motor died.
The only thing I find appealing is the higher centrifical force spin cycle. I think this can save a fair amount of energy, but there is no way it will ever pay for itself.
I found this ad interesting: http://www.automaticwasher.org/FUN/1956Kenmore.jpg
That 1956 model was $260! That's $1793.48 in 2005 dollars. Big money.
More mysterious to me is why the dryer that matches the $1400 front loader is twice the price of the dryer that matches the $500 top loader. Isn't it pretty much the same dryer internally with a different skin?It might have 25 temp settings instead of 5, but I'll probably only use 2 in the life of the dryer.But I'm a cynic anyway...
Jimmy,
The frontload washer is great.
I sold them for Sears when I was in Virginia. Many times I sold the conventional $399 7.5 cu ft dryer (with all the settings you'll need).
The housewife would usually say she wanted the set to MATCH and spend the other $400 to $500 dollars. Then, add $300 for the pedestals.I will say that selling them was easy because word of mouth in that area
was unbelievable...PeteBy the way, doing 6-8 loads per wk saving 65% on water per load and also eliminating 1 or 2 loads will pay for a machine. Remember that the dryer savings is going to be more savings than the water for most people since the clothes will dry quicker.Frisco, TX also has a rebate for frontload washers. I think it's $75
We, me personally, won't use old wringer type washer cause it's more work then is necessary. But we all makes our choices and if you want to use a wringer type washer then be my quest. Just don't leave the old ones out front of your house anymore.
The front loaders use less water and don't tear up the clothes as much as wringer washers do and that why they call it PROGRESS! Again, your choice.
Water aint even close to free...in late summer and when the well water level drops, that water truck we call to refill the tank at he ranch is close to $100 a pop. That aint free! Maintenance and repair of the well, pump and storage tank aint free either. In metro areas we pay about 11 bucks a months for all the water we want and in the last 30 years, never once went dry and never a worry about well contamination either. One trip for water by tanker truck costs just as much as 10 months water service. At the ranch, we just installed new holding tank (5000 gal), one new well pump, one pressure pump at holding tank, and two pressure tanks cost just over $7500 cost. The equipment will last maybe15 years but then still have electrical bill so when everything is considered, Water definitely not free. If they offered water service at $25 a month I'd take it in a second.
Progress is a good thing but some refuse to advance. There is hope for you though so don't despair , your at least willing to get on the internet.
Aint isn't a word aint it!
but some refuse to advance
LOL.
I get plenty chance to advance in my day job , so very low stress ratio when I can have high stability and constants on the home front - plus 2 wells, never less than 29 GPM all day all year long.
Geez, and I thought I was about the only dude who still does his own laundry!
We've got HE front loaders. Had them for a little over a year now and like them very much for all the reasons already mentioned. We bought the pair at the Sears "ding and dent" outlet. A few minor blemishes in the finish, but otherwise brand-new with full warranty. Picked up the $1500 washer for $850 and the $920 dryer for $600.
Oh yeah... hey Nuke.... lotsa people are still on well water. Myself included. I like it much better than the town water we've had in other homes. I think it's still a lot more common than you might think.View Image
Junkhound,
Along with all the other fine features that have been mentioned in this thread, the main reason I bought my front loader was because it rinses out what little soap it uses many times better than the top loader. Since the front loader came home, no more rashes! That feature alone makes it worth it to me.
Food for thought -
The praises the others have sung about front loaders is all true from all that I've read. However, there is one top loader that delivers the same benefits as a front loader - less water, cleaner clothes, less wear - and saves you money.
The Fisher & Paykel washers are really worth looking into. http://usa.fisherpaykel.com/laundry/washers/washers.cfm
We bought one more than a year ago and my wife absolutely loves it. She says the clothes have never been cleaner, she uses about a quarter less detergent (regular, not the pricey front loader detergents), clothes dry in half the time, and we've cut our water bills from $100 a month to around $75 or $80.
We've not had a single problem with this machine and are looking to get one of their dryers soon.
BTW, head down to your local library and do a Consumer Reports lookup on washing machines. They'll give you a run down of features, problems and the like for both front and top loader models. I think the EPA has a chart online that compares enery and water usage as well. That was how we came across the Fisher & Paykel.
Edited 3/20/2006 8:05 pm by pino
Oh man...when junkhound starts a thread on the forum about laundry, now I know this place is just getting ready to implode!
this place is just getting ready to implode
nah, just getting 'cleaned up
Interesting how many assume I'm in the market for a new washer when it was stated there are still 2 good refurbished top loaders in storage to last the rest of my life. Was curious about the front load hype, figured a thread was a good place to ask. Chances of me forking out $1 grand for a washer are about the same as buying a new vehicle!
saw an ad for a Kenmore toploader that is suppose to use 53% less water, and has a short, or no agitator (couldn't tell)
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
Besides the pros others have mentioned, I like the fact that I can have two full sized machines stacked, saving floorspace. Mine are in my garage.
People talk about the reduced drying time, but here is what I didn't expect: Drying clothes takes LESS time than washing them!Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
junkhound,
Or you can buy stacked FLW's 1/2 the space, easy to flip clothes from one into the other..
I have a bad experience with the front load washing machine as the machine used to have many problems several times and I have to repair it all the time by contacting https://uaetechnician.ae/washing-machine-repair